Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Christi: Intimacy really is the willingness to endure the negative feelings we get when we get close to another person. ‘Cause they’re gonna hurt us. They’re gonna do things that … like, I’m mad that I’m mad about this-

Jim: (laughs).

Christi: … I’m mad that I’m hurt about this. I’m hurt that I’m hurt about this, and that’s what intimacy really is. And what, it’s a willingness, like Josh mentions, a willingness to endure those negative feelings. But really when we’re coming together as one flesh, we’re realizing, I’m willing and I’m also recognizing that there is a purpose that God has for us that we couldn’t have accomplished separately.

John: Mm-hmm. That’s Christie Straub describing some of the challenges couples face in marriage. And, uh, we’re so glad to have her back, along with her husband, Dr. Josh Straub, on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller and we’re returning to a conversation that Jim and his wife Jean had with the Straubs at a marriage conference here in Colorado Springs. And there was so much good content here for husbands and wives.

Jim: There really was, John, and I so appreciate the insights and vulnerability-

John: Mm.

Jim: … that Josh and Christi, uh, brought to that discussion. And it’s great to hear, ’cause that’s what you wanna reflect in a healthy, open, uh, context like that within-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … your marriage. Uh, married couples need all the help they can get today, especially in this culture we’re in. Marriage has become so devalued. And while the majority of adults desire to be married someday, they don’t understand the essentials of that commitment, which include sacrifice, or, you know, able to work through a struggle and experience true intimacy on the other side of that. Uh, that’s what Christi was just talking about. Uh, marriage is part of God’s plan for most of us, not everyone. I don’t wanna make it an idol, and, uh, God never said it would be easy in that context either. And husbands and wives need to put in a lot of work, uh, so that they can experience a lifelong love together.

Thankfully Focus on the Family is here to help you, uh, do just that. We have lots of resources to equip you and empower you like our counseling team, and our website, and our free marriage assessment, which is a simple online survey. It takes, you know, 10 minutes. I would hope you have 10 minutes to invest in your marriage.

And by doing that, it will show you the things that you’re doing well and then some areas you might wanna strengthen. It’s a great tool.

John: Yeah. Yeah, and we also have the wonderful book that Josh and Christi have written. The title is Famous at Home: 7 Decisions to Put Your Family Center Stage in a World Competing for Your Time, Attention, and Identity.

Learn more about the marriage assessment and that great book, uh, when you’re at the website. That’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or give us a call, 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. Let’s go ahead now and hear part two of the conversation with Josh and Christi Straub and Jim’s wife, Jean, on today’s Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jean: Josh, you compare dance to conflict in marriage, I believe. What does dancing have to do with couples who are experiencing conflict?

Christi: (laughs).

Jim: Let me show you, let’s go dancing.

(laughing).

Josh: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s a dance that we get into, right? It’s a, it’s that, you know, one of us pursues, the other withdraws, you know? One of us, uh, uses sarcasm. One of us … and I’m not saying us in particular. But you, you know, what is it for you-

Christi: Hypothetically speaking-

Jean: Yes.

Christi: … could be-

Jean: Yes.

Christi: … some people-

Jim: Nobody on this stage.

Josh: But passive-aggressiveness. Um, that one we might-

Christi: Sounds familiar (laughs).

Josh: Uh, martyrdom, you know, playing the victim, you know? I, I mean, for, you know, when she … Especially when we were in the early years with the kids, and I’m up all night with the kids. Like I’m, I’m, I felt in my mind I was doing everything I possibly could-

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … and yet, she was still attacking me. And so what I would do is, I would just play martyr and she’s attacking me. And so, you know, woe, woe is me, woe is me. Because what I do in that point is, she doesn’t have anything … it’s like, I don’t hear her. I shut her down because now you got to look at me, and I make it about me. Like there’s, there’s ways that we dance in our relationship that shut the other person down, and that’s what I refer to.

And, and you can pretty much see, if you take a moment where you’re not arguing but your, your defenses are down and you just want a date night and you say, “You know, what was our last argument?” You can identify pretty much who’s doing what-

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … and you’ll see it every time. It’s, it’s the dance that we individually get into in our marriages. And, and what we do is, we just put that out. Uh, you know, the Bible is so powerful in saying, bring these things out into the light.

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Josh: When they’re in the dark, the enemy takes them and twists them and, and starts to whisper lies. You know, well, she’s out to get you, and she doesn’t really care about you, or he doesn’t, you know? And, and it’s like, no. When we put this out into the light, we can identify and say, “You know, what is it that you’re doing right here and what’s the truth?”

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Josh: What’s the real truth? You know, you’re, you’re experiencing this but the truth is, is that I’m on your team. The truth is, I love you. The truth is, I see you. The truth is, I believe you’re an absolute rockstar, Christi.

Christi: Mm.

Josh: And when she experiences that, now all of a sudden the way she acts towards me, is going to get me changing the way I act towards her. And now we get into this different cycle as opposed to the other dance. And so that’s, that’s what we refer to it.

Jim: I think that’s good and that’s excellent.

(laughing).

Josh: Jim, would you sh- kindly share with us maybe what, you know-

Christi: (laughs).

Josh: … martyrdom was mine. I don’t know if there’s any, you know, dances that you have in your marriage that maybe you wanna highlight for us here tonight.

Jim: Thanks for coming out tonight. It’s been really good-

(laughing).

Christi: Yeah.

Jim: … so I appreciate it.

Christi: Yeah.

Jim: Well, I think we should ask Jean what my problem is.

(laughing).

Jean: I’m trying to think, what our … Yeah, what our-

Jim: What our dance is?

Jean: … what our-

Josh: Or even if one of you like-

Jean: … dance was.

Josh: … withdraws, the other wants to resolve faster.

Jean: Oh, yeah. I-

Josh: I mean, is too fast for the other.

(laughing).

Jean: Yeah, I do the withdrawing in general.

Jim: You think?

Jean: (laughs).

Jim: Doesn’t always feel like that.

(laughing).

I was gonna say, I’m the one withdrawing, but obviously…

Jean: Well, I think what, what we have gotten so much better about is realizing, recognizing that, that if I win the argument, then we lose.

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: Ah, that’s good.

Christi: Yeah, that’s good.

Jean: And if he wins, we lose.

Christi: Yeah.

Jean: And it isn’t ever about-

Christi: No.

Jean: … whatever the-

Christi: Yeah.

Jean: … thing is.

Christi: Yeah.

Jim: That’s true.

Jean: It’s-

Jim: That’s a true statement. You can never remember what it was about.

Josh: Yeah, right.

Jean: It’s about a past hurt-

Christi: Right.

Jean: … or a trigger.

Christi: Yeah.

Jean: And, um, I think, you know, we have just gotten to a better place where we’re … I think we have more bandwidth in our lives, which helps. We don’t have young children, which is, um, really tough. That, well, it’s challenging on a marriage when you’re the … at least one of you might be working really hard in the career. If, like you Christi, I’m staying home with the kids. Um, but I feel like now, you know, we just, it’s easier. We’re more mature. We recognize we’re in this together-

Jim: Yeah.

Jean: … that we are a team, and that I think now this is just how we’re, we’re doing it right. And I’ll really consider, is this something I need to talk to Jim about? And I look at myself first now, and I believe Jim does that. That’s not the dance that we used to do.

Jim: Yeah, that’s good.

Jean: And, um-

Jim: No, I think that’s well I said. I think what you’ve been really good about over … especially over the, the years, the growth that I’ve seen in you is, um … and it is part I think of your science mind, you will stop and say, okay, let, let’s figure out what’s happening.

Jean: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, I think when you speak to me or you say something like that, this is how I feel it, you’ve gotten a lot better … ‘Cause I, I’m not sure, in the past I’d be saying (laughs) whatever I’m saying and you’d be reacting and I don’t know what button I’m pushing.

Jean: Right. Right.

Jim: I know I’m pushing a button, but I don’t know what button I’m pushing.

Jean: (laughs).

Jim: And, uh, so I, I think, yeah, I think age and wisdom has come along with that. I think also you cautioning me not … you know, to use my words wisely in the heat of the moment. You’ve done that a couple of times and I think, I think I’m doing that far better.

Jean: Oh, I don’t remember saying that but I wouldn’t, wouldn’t care to find-

Jim: No, you’ve definitely communicated it.

(laughing).

I don’t know exactly how you said it.

Jean: Well, (laughs).

Jim: I remember a machete.

(laughing).

Something about, think about what you’re gonna say-

(laughing).

… which I translated as, use your words wisely.

Jean: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There we go.

Jim: But no, I think, yeah, I think we’re a lot better off in that regard. Uh, Christi, let me ask you this about the, the teeter-totter analogy-

Christi: Mm.

Jim: … that you use in the book. Um, you know, teeter-totters obviously, you’re up and down, up and down. How did you use that in marriage?

Christi: Well, we found this come into play especially when we had kids. Um, where you feel, it’s almost like … I mean, we always judge someone else by their behaviors, right? But we judge ourselves by our intentions. So we’re looking at their out-

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Christi: … external behaviors and assuming something. We tell ourselves a story about it. And so early on it was … for, for us where we saw this play out a lot was with discipline with our children. And I, I felt like Josh was really lenient. Like, and therefore because he’s down here, right, in terms of like his sticking it to the kids (laughs)-

Jim: Go, Josh.

Christi: … that I needed to like, I needed to be the disciplinarian. So it was like, I needed to ballast him-

Josh: I’ll never forget, I was at a military SOCOM event, Special Forces event at Fort Bragg. And I get a phone call from Christi and I said, “Hey honey, how’s things going?” And she said, “Our son’s in bootcamp.”

(laughing).

I was like, “Okay,” but I knew what that meant. What that meant was, you’re not doing a good enough job disciplining him, so I have to do it while you’re gone.

Christi: Mm. Well, and that’s, ’cause that’s how I felt, right? Where it’s like, I, you’re not doing it … or I feel, I assume based on what I’m seeing and I’m judging your behaviors, that you’re not disciplining him well enough or enough, so that I have to ramp up and I have to be the disciplinarian. And we found that all it really took, we … ’cause we were much more closer-

Josh: Yeah.

Christi: … to the, to the same viewpoints on how we wanted to raise the kids, on how we did wanna handle discipline, than we thought we were. But when you act on this teeter-totter where it’s like, you’re the ‘this,’ therefore I have to be the ‘that,’ it becomes this, again, this competition. And we realized, we’re so much … if we just go one step closer. Remember like, you go on the teeter-totter and you go like a little bit closer-

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Christi: … and you don’t have to, you don’t really move that much. And we were so much closer than we assumed and that, we’ve used that a lot (laughs). It sends, when we got … feel like we’re kind of on polar ends of an, of an issue and realize, we’re really not. And yet, if I act in an extreme, I’m the one who’s causing some of this drama because I’m, I’m reacting to something that’s not even true, so.

Josh: We, we actually literally had an argument a week and a half ago where this was the case. And we were at-

Christi: Please tell me, what was this argument?

(laughing).

Josh: Well, okay, so that was with, when Landon was three years old, when he was a toddler.

Christi: Oh.

Josh: Now we have Micah, who’s a three-year-old-

Christi: Mm.

Josh: … and we’re just, you know-

Christi: We have another one of those.

Josh: We have another one of those and-

Christi: He’s in bootcamp too.

Josh: … we were arguing about-

(laughing).

… his discipline. And we were pretty like, we were pretty tense with each other. We got in that dance and … but it didn’t escalate the way that it would have-

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: … in years past. ‘Cause older, I don’t know about wiser, but we are a little bit older. And, but, but I said to Christi, I said, “Can we pray about this?” I would have never done that in the past. I would have felt ashamed because I wasn’t praying enough with Christi, and I wasn’t seeking God enough in our marriage. And so I would have held back more when she would have said, “Let’s pray about this.” Because it was a shame issue for me that, oh man, man, I’m not praying enough with my wife. And so, but now I was at a point where it didn’t matter. I said, “I think we need to pray. I think we need to go to the Lord on this.” And so we stop arguing and we just started seeking the Lord on it. And that was the getting closer on the teeter-totter for us, even just a week and a half ago with this argument. And we realized, the Lord just spoke to us through that prayer. We got on the same team again. And I mean-

Christi: It’s, it’s shocking how well prayer works.

Jean: Yes.

Josh: Yeah.

Jean: Yes.

Jim: You look very amazed.

Jean: Yes, but it’s true.

Christi: Yeah.

Jean: That is great advice.

John: Well, our panel was obviously having some fun during this episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And Jim’s guests included his wife, Jean, and then Dr. Josh and Christi Straub.

And if you’d like to take on this team mindset, if you’d like to create more opportunities like that with your spouse, we have a free resource that’ll help. It’s our online marriage assessment. Now, this is a very easy survey that gives you an overview of the good things that you know are happening in your relationship. It might identify a point or two that you can improve on. Learn more about that free marriage assessment at marriagemilestone.com.

All right. Let’s go ahead and hear more from today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Hey, um, we’re gonna wrap up in the next five, six minutes. But the, uh, importance of leading with grace when interacting with your spouse (laughs), okay, that, that sounds just like prayer. If we use it, it works well.

Christi: Mm.

Jim: The problem is, why don’t we use it?

Christi: Yeah. Amen.

Josh: Again, I think so often it’s because, as Christi was mentioning earlier, we go in self-protection mode. And so giving our, our spouse grace, means we have to humble our own hearts and we have to potentially look at our own sin towards our spouse and seek forgiveness. And, you know, Jesus led in grace every time … woman at the well, woman caught in adultery, um, woman with the blood, issue of blood. Like, every time Jesus would lead in grace before he explained who he was and spoke truth. And, you know, as our friend John Townsend says, uh, “Truth without grace will always be received as condemnation.” And so any time I come to try to correct Christi, or fix Christi, without grace it never goes well. It’s always received as condemnation, right? And so-

Christi: Yes.

Josh: … Yeah. And so, uh, I’m not being the president of my wife’s fan club in that moment. And so the more that we can lead in grace, and in doing so giving … what that means is, I give Christi the benefit of the doubt.

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: Um, if she’s coming at me, she’s spitting arrows at me or whatever … and vice versa, if I’m spitting arrows at her, then we give each other the benefit of the doubt. And we do, I think we’ve gotten a lot better at that with one another.

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: Because we’ll look at each other and say, “Okay. Let’s, let’s think about what’s going on in our lives right now.” And, you know, really, I think we’re doing a better job of communicating on an ongoing basis about what’s going on in each other’s heart.

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: And that really sets the stage for when those things do happen, we can lead in grace a lot easier because now I’m fighting for what’s going on within her heart.

You know, James 1:19-20 says this, it says, to be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. But Verse 20 says, because human anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness. And I think we miss that a lot, because human anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness. And when we react, we often react in anger but what’s going on underneath the anger? Is it embarrassment? Is it rejection? Is it jealousy? Is it, did I feel unseen? What’s that a- what’s that emotion underneath? And so I always say, this is the most sanctifying set of verses in all of scripture, I believe, especially for marriage. But if I can be quick to listen and in her anger towards me that the underneath emotion … the embarrassed Christi, the Christi that felt belittled because I belittled her in front of our friends. The Christi that feels jealous. The Christi … that’s the Christi I wanna fight for.

The Christi that’s shooting arrows at me in anger, that’s the Christi I wanna fight against. And so leading in grace always brings the defenses down so that Christi, the Christi I wanna fight for, I see what’s going on underneath and now I can start fighting for her. Whereas, if I lead in truth, I’m fighting against her.

Jim: Yeah. Let me ask you-

Josh: … because the anger is coming out.

Jim: … so it’s plain to the guys in the audience-

(laughing).

… and to me, when you’re talking about leading with grace, what does that sound like?

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Jim: ‘Cause I, you know, I, so often you sit with a counselor and they’re so brilliant and saying, “Well, in that situation, if Bob, you would just say, ‘Honey, I hear you.’”

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It just never pops to my mind at the right moment.

Christi: Yeah.

(laughing).

Yeah. I think-

Jim: So what is that meaning-

Josh: I, I think three simple words, “Tell me more.”

Jim: Okay.

Jean: Mm.

Jim: So that’s a, an expression of grace.

Josh: “Tell me more.” It’s an expression of grace because it’s, I wanna hear what’s going on in your heart.

Jim: I like that.

Josh: Tell me what’s going on. I wanna hear more of your story. Versus going, “Well, why do you see it like that? Why, I saw it like this.”

Jim: What, what are you nagging for?

(laughing).

Christi: I think, I think grace too is also giving into the greater truth in the other person’s story. So there’s times where, you know, we like to be right, you know, and we like to correct. Well, that’s actually not what had happened, or that’s actually not what I said. But instead, to give in to the grain of truth, ’cause there’s always a grain of truth. And so, and it, it, it lowers both of our limbic systems down (laughs) out of this fight mode. Because it’s like, well, I, which … and all I could look at it is like, I see what you’re saying there. I see and like, an example. I see how you could have … uh, how you feel that way. And just even that, it’s like, hah. It’s like, I don’t, I’m not trying to like, get my point across because you saw just a little bit. And I think that’s what grace often feels like, is like, I saw just a, into your story just a little bit.

Jean: Well, and something that I’ve, I think I’ve discovered is, we can’t expect our spouse to read our minds. That isn’t fair. And to be able in grace, I think in a … when you’ve calmed down-

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Jean: … to be able to let your spouse know what, what your needs are. Why, why you felt hurt-

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Jean: … and to be able to let them know what is going on inside.

Jim: It’s helpful. Yeah.

Josh: And we all want the same thing. Like, we want the same thing in our marriage.

Jean: Yeah.

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: We wanna be truly connected and intimate with one another. But we just have really poor ways of letting our spouse know that that’s what we want.

Jean: Right.

Jim: (laughs) That’s so true … Okay, last question. This will be it. Both of you can answer this. Um, the idea of hope in marriage. I mean, your, your marriage, number one, what brings that hope? Why do you sustain hope? And then expressing hope for the institution of marriage.

There’s some great research hitting right now, really good research. Yeah. You have a book written by a liberal woman, Melissa … Holly, do you remember her name? Melissa Bur- it starts with a B. But she’s extremely liberal. She’s come out to say that, you know, basically the data supports a two-parent family.

Christi: Mm.

Jim: And they referred to it as the privilege of a two-parent family. But it, I would say commitment-

Christi: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … is more critical. And then, uh, Nicholas Kristof, a liberal reporter for the, uh, New York Times, seven days ago wrote an article kind of echoing the same thing; liberals have had a blind spot when it comes to the importance of the two-parent family.

This is actually a really good moment for marriage. Uh, we’re at a 50-year low in marriage … People quickly say, “Fewer people are getting married.” That’s okay. People are making that marriage commitment and those that are making it, are sticking with it. So we’re at a 50-year low, just came out last week, with, uh, divorce rates in the country. You haven’t heard that news, have you? But talk about the hope for your marriage and the hope for marriage as an institution.

Josh: Okay. So I get really amped about this and I’m grateful you ask this question to close, and I didn’t even realize you were gonna ask this question. But I think that the hope comes from our hope in Jesus Christ. And, you know, in, in Revelation it says, you know, we, we get … Jesus says, “I have come to make all things new.” And in Ephesians, you go to the book of Ephesians and you look at the household, and you see the household as a vehicle for building the kingdom of God. You have the household of faith, but God also orchestrated and implemented the institution of the family as a household in order to build the kingdom of God.

And therefore, as a married couple, with my children and as Team Straub, we get to partner with God, we partner with Jesus, in making all things new as we build for his second coming. And I think if that doesn’t give you hope and a vision and a purpose … This is where we have to help other couples. This is the hope we have for our marriage.

We have really started to pray into, what is biblical simplicity? What does biblical hospitality look like as we …. and how can we model that for other families to give them hope outside of what our Western, uh, individualistic culture is giving families? We’re at an all-time high of depression and anxiety and that’s being trickled down because parents continually say, “I’m too busy and I don’t have enough time.” But yet, we don’t know why we’re too busy. We haven’t stepped back to say, well, are the, are the activities that we’re involved in, is it really important? Uh, are, are we leading our family the way God’s calling us to lead our family? Or are we doing it just because we’re seeing everybody else on Instagram, and everybody else in our culture and signing up for travel sports and all these things? Is, and I’m … Nothing against travel sports but I think we don’t take a step back as families to look at, what, why are we doing what we’re doing?

Christi: Yeah.

Josh: And the hope of the gospel, the hope of, of giving people the experience of a loving family that opens their home, opens their doors to other people in the community, this is what loving … and I think this is what biblical hospitality was meant for, is for us as households. And to me, that’s the hope and that’s the hope of a strong marriage, is to live that out so that people are looking at you and going, “What is it about you? What is …” And then we can introduce them to Jesus by how we’re living our lives. And, and they see it, and they want it. They taste it, they see it, they feel it by how we’re living it out. Not that we’re perfect but that we’re doing … And, and then we cast that vision to our kids. That’s what I think Moses was even talking about, you know, but blessing to the 1,000th generation of those who love and seek his commands. And to me, that’s the hope and that’s what I get super stoked about as I lead my family.

Christi: Amen.

Jean: Amen, that’s hopeful.

Jim: Good answer.

Jim: Amen, brother.

Jim: But that’s so good, and, uh, we so appreciate you spending time with us. God bless you as you go to Canada and marry your cousin off-

Christi: (laughs).

Jim: … and, uh, reinforce the institution of marriage.

Christi: Yeah, amen.

Jim: And Jean, thanks for being with us.

Jean: Absolutely.

Jim: I know this is not your comfort zone.

Jean: (laughs).

Jim: I mean, you’re kinda jumping in here, so thank you.

Jean: Well, it’s, it’s fun and this is great content. There, there’s a lot of nuggets in this, so thank you.

Jim: Just remember, I’m the president of YOUR fan club!

Jean: Yes.

(laughing).

Jim: Let’s give them a hand, everybody. Thanks.

(Audience applause)

John: Well, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and we just heard a, a fun and a very engaging conversation between Jim and his wife Jean, and Dr. Josh and Christi Straub. And, uh, we mentioned before that a lot of this marriage encouragement comes from the Straubs’ podcast, Famous at Home, and they’ve got a book with that same title.

Jim: Yeah. And Jean and I had so much fun talking with Josh and Christi, and I really appreciate the insights and practical advice that they shared. And I know a lot of couples will benefit from this program.

This is why Focus on the Family is here. To help strengthen the relationship between you and your spouse. Uh, we want to equip you to grow together spiritually and intimately so you can experience a one flesh relationship, just like God intended.

It’s so much bigger than our feelings. I mean, we’re made in the image of God. We’re made to be one in marriage and it’s a spiritual experience. And then everything else cascades from that. Your emotional intimacy, your physical intimacy. Let’s work on it, because that’s the most important relationship we have.

And I wanna urge you to check out our website for all the links and articles we have for husbands and wives. We also have an online marriage assessment. I know we talk (laughs) about it. But we want everybody to take it because it helps you discern what you’re doing well, what you may need to work on.

And there will be that moment, I just want the husbands to know, when the wives are going, “See? See, I told you.”

John: (laughs).

Jim: That’s okay.

John: Yeah.

Jim: I mean, be a man.

John: Yeah.

Jim: And, uh, and then you can begin to work on those things.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah, a million people plus have taken that survey-

Jim: Mm.

John: … uh, that assessment, so join them and learn more.

And of course, uh, watch or listen to this show as often as you can. Uh, we’re available on radio, on YouTube, as a podcast and, 24/7 you can access this content any time you want with our broadcast app.

Jim: Yeah. It’s kinda like drip irrigation, where you will get Godly advice and encouragement every day from marriage experts and other couples who have gone through many of the issues that many of you are experiencing today.

And I’m reminded of a note we received from a listener named Rebecca, who described how 25 years into her marriage she was feeling bitter and dissatisfied about her husband. And she wanted to leave and even contemplated how to do that.

John: Mm.

Jim: But here’s the thing, Rebecca was listening to our podcast where she was hearing regular reminders about God’s plan for marriage and the importance of good communication. And how couples need to show respect and love toward one another. I know (laughs), and I know from experience, that can be hard to do at times ’cause you don’t feel it. But that’s what we should do spiritually.

John: Mm.

Jim: Over time that drip-drip-drip of good news changed her heart and Rebecca wrote this to us. She said, “God has performed a great work in my marriage and He chose to use Focus on the Family as my main source of help. Although my marriage isn’t where I want it to be just yet, we are learning and growing.” And man, I love that, John. I love that testimony.

John: Yeah, that’s really encouraging. And we’re so grateful for the people that have, uh, fueled the ministry through your donations and prayed for us and made moments like that possible, those drip-drip-drip, uh, opportunities to speak into Rebecca’s heart, soul and marriage.

And Focus on the Family can help you in some way, I know. Contact us to learn more about the resources we’ve mentioned, our website, the marriage assessment, our app and, uh, how you can get a copy of the book from Josh and Christi Straub.

In fact, make a donation of any amount to Focus on the Family today, join the support team and we’ll say thank you by sending a copy of the book, Famous at Home. Donate when you call 800-232-6459. That’s 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY or when you’re at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

And coming up tomorrow, Dr. Rosaria Butterfield offers a challenge to the Christian community.

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Dr. Rosaria Butterfield: It’s not faithful and it’s not compassionate if you don’t help people know that God saves sinners just like me, and he changes our lives. He liberates the captives. That’s the gospel.

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