Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family, we’ll hear from Deborah Pegues, who suggests that what you say matters.

Preview:

Deborah Pegues: So I like to give people a challenge, to go the next 24 hours, don’t express any displeasure with anything. Not the traffic, not the weather, nothing that you can’t do anything about.

End of Preview

John: That’s a challenge from Deborah Pegues, and she joins us today on Focus on the Family. Your host is Focus President and author, Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Hey John. For anyone who’s ever said something they’ve later regretted, um, this is going to be the broadcast for you. Uh, we’re going to talk about how to tame the tongue. That’s probably one of the hardest things to do. And of course, it’s not the tongue, it’s just the deliverer of the message, it’s our hearts. And, uh, what our minds are thinking about the world around us. And God wants to get control of that for very good reason. We are reminded throughout the Bible to do everything without complaining or arguing. Uh, that mandate in and of itself could take us a lifetime to accomplish. You mature over time. In the Christian community we call that the sanctification process. And, uh, with God’s help, uh, and the Holy Spirit’s guidance, we can improve substantially in that area. To take control, take captive, that nasty tongue, and to actually bless people with it rather than curse people with it. Here at Focus, that’s what we want to be to you. If you struggle in this area, uh, we’re here for you. Call us, uh, we have counselors, we have resources, like Deborah’s book, 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue. And, uh, that’s an area, if you need help, we’re here.

John: Our website is focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Or give us a call at 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. And, uh, Deborah is a certified public accountant, a Bible teacher, a speaker, uh, author of a number of books. And Jim, you mentioned that 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue. I think this is perhaps one of the most convicting topics we’ve covered in… on this podcast.

Jim: (laughs) It will be. Wait till we cover it. Deborah, welcome back to Focus.

Deborah: Thank you so much, I’m so excited about this topic.

Jim: It’s so good to have you. You know, one thing, and I want for our listeners to better understand. I was so impressed with your resume. And I’m not going to read everything, but you graduated with an MBA from USC, there in Southern California, former VP of MCA, Universal Studios Venture Capital Division. You are a finance person, aren’t you?

Deborah: I- I- I’m also a f… Yes, I am, but I’m also a former maid who made 75 cents an hour, so let’s get that in there.

Jim: That… that is awesome. I love that. But, you know, just, uh, everything that you’ve done, you’ve, uh, gone through the John Maxwell training, uh, Leadership Certification. Uh, you just have done so much. You are a high achiever.

Deborah: I like learning.

Jim: Okay, that’s good.

Deborah: I like learning. I think it’s good for you, good for your brain, good for your attitude about life. I’m always looking forward to something. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) I love it. Is your husband similar in that way, or how does he manage, uh, your life together? (laughs)

Deborah: We’re completely… we’re complete opposites. We look differently, and we’re as… we always say we’re as different as we look.

Jim: Okay, so how… that… this is good. So how do you tame your tongue when it comes to your husband not behaving the way you want him to?

Deborah: By taking heed. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Deborah: I love what the Psalmist says. He says, “I -I will take heed to my ways, that I sin not with my tongue.” But I had some good mentors, and of my mentors always told me, she said, “Listen, that tongue of yours… you’re going to have to really pay attention to it.” So she said, “Always stop, think, and pray, before you say something.” I’m like, “That’s a lot.” (laughs)

Jim: Yeah. And this book has sold over a million copies?

Deborah: A million, yeah.

Jim: Why do you think people have resonated with your message?

Deborah: Well first of all I think it’s because God took a mess and turned it into a message. Because I wrote the book-

Jim: (laughs) I like that.

Deborah: (laughs) because I messed up. I -I mean, it was… It’s an accidental book, but I don’t like to use that word, “Accidental,” when I’m talking about the things of God. So I’m going to say it’s a providential book. But I really messed up and told something I wasn’t supposed to tell. And I wasn’t being indiscrete, I was just trying to rescue somebody, and so… and it backfired. I was trying to help somebody out, blah, blah, blah. It backfired, and she was so upset with me. I decided to go on a tongue fast myself. “I’m going to put myself on a plan for 30 days, and I’m not going to say anything negative.” Now… Now, just try that, all right?

Jim: So this was for you in the end?

Deborah: It was… it was a personal project for me only.

Jim: I appreciate that vulnerability.

Deborah: (laughs) yeah.

Jim: Because I… you… a lot of people would say, “Yeah, I wrote it for a friend.” (laughs)

John: (laughs).

Deborah: No, I wrote it for me, and- and- and people kept… and I would put signs or… in my office at work. Uh, it would say, “Tongue fast. That means, when you come in here, don’t discuss anything negative. I’m on a tongue fast.” If people started to be negative, I’d say, “I can’t discuss that.” And so somebody said, “I believe God wants you to write a book.” No, I believe God wants me to work on me. (laughs). So I finally did.

Jim: Okay, a- and- and this really is capturing this journey?

Deborah: Yeah, absolutely.

Jim: And what you did?

Deborah: Yeah.

Jim: Now why are we so… broadly, why are we all so affected with tongue problems? I mean, it’s so natural for us in our flesh to lash out, to say things we regret. Why?

Deborah: It is. Because we’re human, and- and also because we’re not, uh, created carbon copies of each other. And so we don’t always know other people’s sensitivities. You know, you may joke and may s- say something about my dark skin. You may not know that I’m just like, “Oh, don’t say that.” Or whatever. You just never know what people’s sensitivities are, and so you’re bound to offend somebody.

Jim: Yeah. E- e- even though you’re challenging us for 30 days, you started to say, you know, “Just try it for 24 hours.”

Deborah: Yes.

Jim: I want you to finish that challenge.

Deborah: Okay, so-

Jim: Because I- I think you’re going to say it’s hard.

Deborah: I’m… I was going to say that at the end, but I’ll say it now. Because don’t think you can do all 30 of these, uh, tongues that I’ve listed in the book. I have 30 negative uses of the tongue.

Jim: So one for each day?

Deborah: Just try one a day, or just try one a week. (laughs)

Jim: Yeah.

Deborah: Just… For instance, if you have trouble telling the whole truth, you tend to tell half the truth. Just say, “This week, I’m going to tell the whole, truth, and nothing but. I’m not going to imply something that’s not true.” Here’s an example. I- I tend to run late for things sometimes-

Jim: (laughs)

Deborah: And I’ll just come in… Now in L.A., you know, I would… I would rush in and go, “Uh, traffic.” Now I didn’t say I was in tra-

Jim: Yeah, it’s always a good excuse.

Deborah: I didn’t say I was in traffic, I just said, “Traffic”. (laughs) half-truth. My husband said, “Listen, the half-truth is a whole lie.”

Jim: Wow, that’s good.

Deborah: Yeah. And so… b- but see… you, see? Subtle ways that we cannot… like, not tell the truth. And so, we all have negative uses of the tongue. So I- I… when I started this project, I said, “I’m going to look up every negative use of the tongue I can find in the Bible. I’m going to find scriptures for them, and then I’m going to, uh, put a challenge out there to refrain from it.” So that’s what I did.

Jim: Yeah, and that’s good, and we’re going to cover some of those. One is the know-it-all tongue. Now, uh, the people that’re… the know-it-all people just went, “No, don’t cover that one.” So-

John: “We already have this one, move on to the next, please.”

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) What is the know-it-all tongue?

Deborah: Where you just can’t even receive from anybody else, but every subject that comes up, you have the final word on it. Even if you’re in Bible study, and it… there’s been a great lesson laid out, and you’ll say, “But what we have to really remember above all…” It’s like, no we don’t. That’s not above all. (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) You even have the vocabulary for this.

Deborah: No really. Or… or… here’s a funny thing. When we were buying a car… because I- I deliberately like to let people teach me things. I- I just think it makes them feel better. Especially if they think-

Jim: Yeah. Even if you already know it, is the point.

Deborah: If you already know it. And see, that’s a big challenge.

Jim: That’s hard to do.

Deborah: It’s hard to let… especially for a man.

Jim: Yes.

Deborah: It’s hard.

Jim: You want to be the teacher.

Deborah: Oh ye-

Jim: “I’ve been here, son.”

Deborah: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jim: “Let me show you how to change that tire.”

Deborah: That’s… yes. S_-Sometimes when we’re buying a car or something, and…and they’ll talk down to me because I’m the little woman, I think it’s so funny. Because I am a CPA, and they’ll s… explain that “You know, with interest, you know, the payment has interest and principal.” And I think is so funny. I have an MBA in finance, I can do an amortization schedule in my head. And I’ll say, “Okay,” and I’ll just act like they’re t- telling me something. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) it’s hard to bite your tongue in that case.

Deborah: Well y… but i… but if you choose to, because let me tell you why you want to do that. It’s pride. You don’t want anybody to think you don’t know something. It’s this fear of appearing to be inadequate.

Jim: Yes.

Deborah: So, “No, no, I’m adequate, I know that already.”

Jim: Well that’s true. Um, that’s true. I think for met it’s hard to say, “I don’t know,” if I could be blunt. It’s hard to say that. A- and it is something we’ve got to get over. I’m working on it.

Deborah: And… and there…there… there’re examples i… of it in the bible.

Jim: That should be the one… the 30-day challenge of saying, “I don’t know.” That’s what I’m going to do.

Deborah: Yeah, just… I… yeah, it’s okay.

Jim: But what about in marriage? How does this know-it-all tongue tend to play out in marriage?

Deborah: Well I’ll tell you what-

Jim: Ouch.

Deborah: What my mentor told me, when she said… Um, when I was engaged to Darnell, and she was in a car with us one day. We were discussing something, and she said, “Okay, missy.” (laughs) “We know you’re smart, but don’t know everything.” (laughs) She said, “Let him know some things.”

John: Yeah. (laughs).

Deborah: And I’m thinking to myself, “Yeah, I plan to let him know some things.” (laughs)

John: (laughs).

Jim: (laughs).”Starting right now.”

Deborah: Right, “Starting right now.” But I- I- I took that to heart. Let him know some things. You don’t have to jump in there and say, “I- I- I can do that.” And so I’m… I’m pretty good at being vulnerable. I- it just helps. (laughs).

Jim: Yeah. But it is… it’s a maturity in Christ, to be able to bite the tongue, and say, “Okay, I don’t have to straighten him out every time.”

Deborah: You don’t have to straighten anybody out. You don’t have to tell somebody, “I- I know that.” Or… you know, you just don’t have to do that. That’s pride, and you’ve got to call it the way it is.

Jim: Well there are teenagers though. (laughs)

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: You might want to straighten some of them out.

Deborah: Oh yes, absolutely.

Jim: Now… Okay, now the argumentative tongue.

Deborah: Oh boy.

Jim: Oh, is this one hitting a little… a little spot there?

Deborah: No. I grew up in a family that liked to argue. My… I… I have… I have relatives that… arguing is their norm.

Jim: Okay, so let me ask that. Th… so, your family or origin, how you grow up, could shape some of these tongue maladies?

Deborah: Absolutely. Because you could… you could become like that, or you could come… become the complete opposite. I decided I didn’t want to be argumentative. Because I just thought it… an argument should have a resolution.

Jim: You’re right.

Deborah: Not just keep going in a circle. Because that’s how my parents argued. And they just… I never saw them really resolve something, and say, “Okay, from now on, this is how we’re going to go forward.” It would just become circular. They’d just go into the next level of an argument. And I just think when people do that it’s be I think th- they’re maybe feeling insecure about what they do know. Why do you need to argue that? I have a- a bother who likes to argue the Bible. I’m… I don’t argue the Bible. I just tell you what part I embrace, which is all of it, and if you choose not to, that’s fine.

Jim: That sounds pretty definitive.

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: But it’s true, and I- I can… you know, I can understand that. I think you can create an environment of arguing-

Deborah: Yes.

Jim: And some people might even say that’s a positive, because you want to be able to stand on firm ground, you want to be able to defend your positions.

Deborah: And you should. You should be able to defend your faith. But you don’t have to be mean about it.

Jim: Oh, that’s true.

Deborah: Yeah, you know.

Jim: I totally believe that.

Deborah: Because I- I think that’s what’s wrong, even in politics. I’m… You know, this last election just split a lot of relationships.

Jim: Sure.

Deborah: And I’m thinking, “I- I’m friends with everybody. I- I embrace everybody’s right to believe what they want to believe. I don’t… I don’t… why do you have to believe the way I do?’

Jim: Yeah. But hey, there’s a certain intolerance in the… a growing intolerance in the culture in this regard.

Deborah: There is.

Jim: And it’s both left and right, and-

Deborah: I- I- it is. And it’s too bad.

Jim: It is destroying.

Deborah: I- it’s too bad.

Jim: Yeah, absolutely.

Deborah: Yeah.

Jim: Well okay, that’s a good place to put that argumentative tongue. What about, again, in marriage. Let me apply this here. When you have the spouse, and I’m not going to say it’s the wife or the husband, just the spouse.

Deborah: Right.

Jim: Who… who is just constantly picking a fight. What do you do? What if you’re the, uh, receiver of that? What advice do you have for that spouse to say, “Honey, can you stop chewing me up? I’m not processing at your speed. I’m not… you’re just killing me here.”

Deborah: Well… well… well I think you need to agree quickly with your adversary. (laughs)

Jim: Yeah, right.

Deborah: As the bible talks about, agree quickly with your adversary. So if my husband and I are in a discussion, I will say, “I hear you.” You see, I don’t… I don’t give any fuel to that. I’ll say, “I hear you.” If he’s putting forth a point, and if I don’t… “I hear you,” does not mean, “I agree with you.” It means, “I literally hear you.”

Jim: Right.

Deborah: But that helps, because-

Jim: But it reduces the friction.

Deborah: It does, because half the part of s- s… resolving an argument is for that person to feel like they’ve been heard, and you’re validating their point. So, “I hear you,” will do that.

Jim: Huh.

Deborah: I hear you. And then I can say, “W- We can just agree to disagree. That’s what makes us so unique. We’re different.”

Jim: Th- there is… I… and I think generally when people say, “I hear you,” they do hear you. There is the occasional time when the person being told, “I hear you,” knows you’re not listening.

Deborah: Well you’ve got to listen though. You’ve got… you’ve got-

Jim: So it has to be sincere.

Deborah: You listen with your eyes, and… and your expressions. You… you listen, and you nod your head.

Jim: Yeah.

John: Mm-hmm.

Deborah: You do. Yeah.

John: Deborah Pegues is our guest on Focus on the Family today, and 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue. It’s sold over a million copies. If you don’t have it, get a copy of it.

Jim: (laughs) That’s right.

John: Get a CD or download of this conversation at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or give us a call. We’d be happy to tell you more, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Deborah, the complaining tongue. I mean, again, these are societal problems right now.

Deborah: Yes.

Jim: We seem to relish complaining.

Deborah: All of us.

Jim: Yeah.

Deborah: It’s contagious.

Jim: Uh-huh.

Deborah: And we’ve got to be sensitive to it. That’s why I- I call this a fast. Uh, where you become keenly aware of your tendency to engage in these negative behaviors. And complaining is so natural. I don’t care, you can be in a market, and everybody’s… Here’s… here’s a good example, in the bank, in the bank. “Oh, the line is long, or whatever.” And… for people who still go to the bank. Most of us do online banking.

Jim: I was going to say, do you go in the bank? I don’t think I’ve been in a bank in years.

Deborah: Well some people do that, you know. You know. Like in years, you’ve got to go there. Or… or, I have to send-

John: Because the lines are too long.

Deborah: I have to send money off and to rel- relatives in distress, so you have to go to Walmart or somewhere, and stand in that line. I hate it. But… you know… but the complaining, it’s like, “Oh.” And I’m thinking, “You’re standing here because you have access to resources. Do you know that half the world lives on less than two dollars a day?”

Jim: So the half full cup, you know.

Deborah: Yeah, right.

Jim: Yeah.

Deborah: So… but here’s the deal. You’ve got to become aware of your complaining, and I think that we could actually park on this and spend an hour talking about it, because it is so easy. So I like to give people a challenge, to go the next 24 hours, don’t express any displeasure with anything. Not the traffic, not the weather, nothing that you can’t do anything about. And in the scriptures, the Psalmist says, “I poured out my complaint before the Lord.” If the person you’re complaining to can’t do anything about it, stop talking.

Jim: Yeah. I’ll… Here’s one that’s funny for us. Um, I remember when I first started at Focus on the Family, it was 1989.

Deborah: Wow.

Jim: That was a long time ago. And I was on a training mission with another person, and we were out, and we went to a rental car counter to get the car. And th- they had no cars, and it was just out of a comedy, you know, situation. And so the person who’s training me from Focus on the Family was kind of upset, you know, with the… the agent. Saying, “Well, I reserved a car. Why wouldn’t you have a car for me?” And, yeah, it was a little heated.

Deborah: Oh wow.

Jim: And, you know, “Are you going to get a car?” And th- the person finally brought all the information up on the screen, and they said, “Oh, Focus on the Family? I love Dr. Dobson. Focus on the Family.”

Deborah: Oops.

Jim: And this person went, “Oh great, that’s so wonderful.” I mean, their tone changed like this. (laughs)

Deborah: (laughs).

John: (laughs).

Deborah: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: I mean… And that was a great lesson for me to bite my tongue, you know, when… on an airline problem, or a rental car problem.

Deborah: Absolutely.

Jim: I’m trying to always behave myself, because you never know when they’re going to say, “Oh, I listen to you on the radio.”

Deborah: Okay, now lest I sound like a walking Bible, let me tell you, this is what keeps me from complaining, Romans 8:28, “All things are working together for my good.” Now, I… It may not look like it, but if I stop and tell myself that, “This delay is working for my good. This traffic is working for my good. God is protecting me from something-”

Jim: That’s a hard one to believe. Come on.

Deborah: No really, I do it. I do it.

Jim: This traffic’s working for my good?

Deborah: Oh, this … this traffic. I mean, you know… And I don’t know if I get up there two miles later and see an accident, “Well, that could’ve been me if that car hadn’t cut in front of me and slowed me down.”

Jim: There you go. All right.

Deborah: You know. So we’ve got to believe that. Yeah.

Jim: It- It’s a good way to look at things.

Deborah: Yeah.

Jim: Let’s go to the self-absorbed tongue.

Deborah: Oh my.

Jim: I mean, that’s tough to say with your tongue. But the self-absorbed tongue. What are you describing there?

Deborah: I’m describing a person who’s always talking about himself. He’s not-

Jim: (laughs)

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: The me monster.

Deborah: Th- they’re not interested in you, you know, in what you’re about, in your dreams and hopes. They’re just talking about all the wonderful things that happened to them. “Oh, my book, 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue has sold a million copies, and I’m in Denver doing six media interviews, and I’m just… me, me, me, me.”

Jim: Can I ask you though, at the core of that, is deep insecurity?

Deborah: Deep insecurity.

Jim: So there’s… there’s more stuff going on there.

Deborah: Absolutely.

Jim: So how… how does the person… Let’s again go to the spouse. You’re married to that person.

Deborah: Okay.

Jim: H- how… you’ve noticed this. You obviously said yes, but how… how do you begin to say, “Honey, have you ever really just recorded what you’re saying? Have you ever heard yourself, and what you’re saying?” H- How do you go about helping each other grow?

Deborah: I would take the sandwich approach. You always say something positive, then you give them the meat of the matter. And you can say, “Listen, I just love it that God has blessed with you in so many areas. Uh, he’s just caused you to achieve in so many areas, or so many great things are happening. A- are you aware of the fact that other people might not be as blessed? And it… it may not be very, um, endearing to them to hear all about you like that.” And so you might want to focus on other people. Ask them questions and show them how to do it. My husband and I have… And he’s not self-absorbed, but, uh, as part of networking, he’s learned how to ask people questions, and be interested in others. Because you know they say th… e- e- everybody’s favorite subject is what? Themselves.

John: Themselves. Yeah.

Jim: Yeah.

Deborah: So I like to focus on other people. I don’t want to just focus on me, and what I’m doing. I like to ask them questions. You know, “T- t- tell me about your background. Where did you grow up?”

Jim: Yeah, and it’s so… people love to engage and talk about themselves.

Deborah: They do. And we’ve got to watch that, so that we… and we listen to it, and be genuinely interested about it.

Jim: Now here’s the greatest challenge on Earth when you have children, and especially again, I’ll just go to the teen years. Uh, that’s an important parenting tool. H- how to ask questions of your teenager.

Deborah: Yes.

Jim: Rather that just dem… and really thoughtful questions, not, “How did school go today?” Because that’s a grunt, “Yeah, good.” You know?

Deborah: Yeah. E- e- even if you ask them, “W- who’s your favorite teacher? Why? What do you like about her style?”

Jim: Yeah.

Deborah: Who… who… what teacher do you not like the most? W- what do you not like about that?

Jim: And why not?

Deborah: Yeah.

Jim: And then don’t be judgmental about it.

Deborah: Don’t be judgmental, just listen.

Jim: “Well that’s a great teacher. You need to learn math.”

Deborah: Yeah. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs).

Deborah: Listen-

Jim: It’s fun.

Deborah: Two ears, one mouth. Listen.

Jim: There you go.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Y- y- you also mentioned a moment ago, the half-truth tongue. I- I really appreciate all these wonderful tongue twisters you that you give us.

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: The half-truth tongue. Elaborate on that a little bit more. I like that idea of-

Deborah: Of telling the whole truth. Okay.

Jim: Prevarication is what the scripture calls it.

Deborah: Well… and we don’t think we lie, do we? That’s just kind of what it is.

Jim: No. well it’s a full lie, it’s just a half lie.

Deborah: It’s a half lie. But as my husband said, “A half-truth is a whole lie.”

Jim: Yeah, embellishing.

Deborah: But I used to be the queen of that. I would just tell half the truth. If I had to take off from work and take my mom to the doctor, I only needed like four hours, but I would just take off the rest of the day. Because it’s like, “Oh, I had to take my mom to the doctor.”

Jim: Do you think-

Deborah: Well I did take my mom to the doctor. It didn’t take all day, but…

Jim: Right, do you think… (laughs)

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: I’m… I’m saying that because I think in the Christian community, we really pour ourselves into this one. Because we can get away… We think we’re getting away with it, but the Lord sees that, and he doesn’t want that.

Deborah: He doesn’t want it.

Jim: He wants us to be honest and straightforward. I guess the question then becomes, are we a culture th- that struggles with honest and straightforward?

Deborah: We struggle with sin, period. And if we’re not conscious of it… Which is why I like for people to go on these 30-day periods of abstinence from certain things. Uh, B- because it sensitizes you to where you are. You know, and we all have areas of our tongue, especially, that we could be… we could be less critical, we could be less a whole bunch of things. And so if we… if we tend to tell half the truth, understand that it’s displeasing to God. And if you want to read a story kin… that’s kind of like that, with Ananias and Sapphira, who sold their land in the book of Acts, and… and they said… Uh, because everybody else was selling land and donating it, it was such a- a- a culture there that everybody was sharing. And they said, “Yeah, we sold ours,” but they told a lie. They did sell it, but they lied about how much they sold it for. They kept back part of it, and God struck them dead. Now-

Jim: I think a lot of people that read that go, “Wow. That pretty harsh.”

Deborah: You know what I mean? That’s pretty harsh, but I think God was setting a precedent, to say, “Listen, this… we’re not going to tolerate these-”

Jim: Don’t mess with this.

Deborah: No. We need to tell the truth. Foundationally, we need to… we need to base the church on the truth. Okay.

John: Back to what you were saying though about your own experiences. Why were you telling half-truths about taking your mom to the doctor, or something else?

Jim: Well that’s a good question.

Deborah: Because I was trying to mislead people. Listen, any lie is an intent to deceive.

John: But for what purposes?

Deborah: Because I wanted them to think it took all day so I could go do something else. I don’t want to say, “I took my mom to the doctor for three hours, and I spent the other five shopping.”

Jim: (laughs)

John: Ah, okay. (laughs)

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: C- c- c… Uh, I… this is a really tough one.

Deborah: I- I didn’t want-

Jim: Is it ever reasonable to just, “Uh”? Y- you have to tell the whole truth really every time.

Deborah: You don’t have to volunteer the whole truth, but if you… if… l… you always have to look at the intent of the heart.

Jim: Okay, that’s good. That’s the crux.

Deborah: If… if your intent… event with the silence. If the intent is to deceive, meaning, “I want you to think something different than what the reality is,” then you are lying.

Jim: Yeah. And that’s what it is.

Deborah: It is. See, if you just call a spade a spade, then you can just go in and be healed. You can’t be healed of things you conceal. You really can’t.

Jim: Now in that context of encouragement, I… you know, it’s so fun. It’s almost like giving a birthday present, when you can be an encourager.

Deborah: Yes.

Jim: But again, uh, just personally, that can be a struggle at times. Because you’re feeling like, “We need reprimand, we need course correction.” Especially if you’re in management, you’re leading people, you have kids at home. There are times when you have to be helping them see the path.

Deborah: Right and giving them hope rather than punishment.

Jim: Well giving them hope, but h… y- y… sometimes it might be punishment.

Deborah: And an expectation though, that, “I know you can do better than this.” And there may have to be a punishment, but don’t… you don’t leave it with just that.

Jim: Well, and I just want people to make… uh, and me, to hear from you that, you know, course correction is okay. God… that’s truth.

Deborah: Absolutely.

Jim: and that’s… that’s something that God wants us to do to encourage each other. Even Paul writes about that too, to… to finish the race strongly. To rise up to the right standards.

Deborah: And when you… whenever you can, encourage rather than criticize. And I think that it’s just so critical, because it impacts other people’s progress. When… A- and when you read the story of Miriam in the Bible, where they criticize Moses, and then, uh, God struck her with leprosy. The whole place came to a standstill. They couldn’t move, nobody could move forward. And I say that’s a lesson there, because when you’re critical like that, it- it really impedes other people’s progress.

Jim: Right.

Deborah: And so we… one of the things we can do, and in the book, I talk about the fact that not only should you refrain from these 30 negative uses, but find 30 ways to, uh, be more positive. Encourage somebody. To say, “Yes, you can do this.” I… let me tell you a story. I have a friend who lives… whose husband is very mean. Uh, and I called her one day, and I said, “I just want to tell you that your merchandise is good.” I- I was studying Proverbs 31, and I see say she perceives that her merchandise is good. “I want to let you know that you have good merchandise.” And she said that she kept that message on her phone for like… forever almost.

Jim: That’s amazing.

Deborah: Because she wanted to hear that validation.

Jim: Just that little bit of encouragement. Yeah. Ho… what kind of trigger do you use? And I- I guess for temperament reasons, you know, you have a more negative temperament to a more positive temperament. So the more positive person, it’s going to come more naturally.

Deborah: Yeah.

Jim: So speak to both of that. H… what kind of trigger do you use to say, “Oop, I’m going to bite my tongue. I’m not going to say that negative thing I thought of”? And you’re doing this in milliseconds.

Deborah: Y- yes.

Jim: And you’re going to say something positive and encouraging.

Deborah: Right.

Jim: W- what trigger do you use to make sure you-

Deborah: Well here’s my trigger. The Holy Spirit will often tell you, “Don’t say that.” You know, it’s… it’s… it’s like a caution light.

Jim: (laughs).

Deborah: He’s like, “Okay, you need to stop talking, you’re about to mess up.” And then sometimes… And I have to tell you, I don’t always… I… Sometimes I run the light, I violate it. Especially if somebody’s not doing a great job. And I hate this, because I’m thinking, “That’s not brain surgery.” And I’ve actually said that. But I didn’t know what a negative impact that had on somebody, to one of my former employees. Uh, h- he lied about his qualifications, and he couldn’t do the job. And I looked at it one day, and I said, “That’s not brain surgery, how hard is that?” Well that’s like saying, “Idiot.”

Jim: That’s a cutting remark, yeah.

Deborah: Yeah, and I didn’t realize that.

Jim: But I- I could be right with you.

Deborah: But it… it… it wiped him out. I didn’t know that. I’m thinking, “Well you shouldn’t’ve lied about the job. The least I’m going to do is give you a tongue lashing. You shouldn’t lie about-”

Jim: Now again, a lot of people are going to say that was reasonable, Deborah. Why’re you beating yourself up?

Deborah: No, that wasn’t though. (laughs)

Jim: I know, but some people will say…

Deborah: Yeah.

Jim: So how do we need to interpret that it wasn’t? Because, like, there’s a logic to that too.

Deborah: The tone, the put down. When you say, “Everybody knows that” what are you saying? “Except you, idiot.”

Jim: Okay, so let’s back the tape up.

Deborah: Let’s back the tape up.

Jim: Play that forward how that should’ve been done.

Deborah: And I said okay, he… he didn’t post the receivables right, when I was working as the CFO at this place. And I said, “Now I…” I shouldn’t’ve said, “How hard is that?” I’m going to say, “What aspect of this did you find confusing?” Because I could use that as a teaching moment, rather than a moment to beat him up.

Jim: Right. And you don’t add this, “It obviously confused you.”

Deborah: Right. Right, yeah. Right. Yeah, “So what part of this do I need to… did I not make clear?” Or what part-”

Jim: That is so good, though.

Deborah: “What part did you need more clarity?” I could ask that question if I had stopped, if I’d thought about it and prayed about it before I said it. But sometimes you’re so frustrated when you’re so goal oriented. And that’s why when you are a high achiever, you have to watch your tongue more, probably, than anybody else.

Jim: Well, and you think about that, the immediate response is, “Wouldn’t this be a better world?” But think of this, wouldn’t it be a better church if we had these principles down?

Deborah: Yes.

Jim: Talk about the retaliating tongue, because that… that’s one we need to cover here at the very end. Because that… it’s so easy to fall into that spot.

Deborah: And especially in marriage. Because to retaliate means to return the punishment.

Jim: So you’re keeping score.

Deborah: Yeah, you’re keeping score, and you… and if he says something, I’m going to say something. Why do you need to return the punishment, rather than seeking first to understand?

Jim: So I will win, Deborah.

Deborah: No, but have you won?

Jim: (laughs) No. In the end, you lose everything.

Deborah: You lose, you lose. Because words never die, and that’s what we have to remember. Words never die. They’re going to last like… they’re going to be like shrapnel in that person’s brain. So you don’t need to return the punishment, you need to seek first to understand. Why don’t you turn that into an opportunity to say, “Could you explain more what you mean by that?” And even if it was mean, the person said something that was mean, you need to say, “You know, your tone really hurt me.” It’s okay to be vulnerable and to say that that… “Those words really hurt me, and I r- really wish you would think at it next time.”

Jim: If you think about this, what’s so good is this applies to every area of your life.

Deborah: Every area.

John: In your relationships, yeah.

Jim: In your marriage, in your parenting, in your work relationships, in your friendships. This is a secret to living a blessed life, and a good life.

Deborah: Absolutely. And words… words form our… our relationships. So whether we’re at work, our words… you can encourage your boss, and become one of his favorite people. (laughs).

Jim: Oh, you will.

Deborah: You will.

Jim: That’s for sure.

Deborah: Try it, it works. I- I’ve done this, with my husband the other day. I said, I… “You know what I like about you?” And he’s so used to me being positive for a reason, he said, “Uh-oh. Is this a setup? Are you going to ask me a question?”

Jim: (laughs).

John: (laughs).

Jim: There’s a list coming, right?

Deborah: (laughs)

Jim: “Saturday’s list is on its way.”

Deborah: He said, “I don’t know about you-”

Jim: “Fix the door. We’re back to that John, fix the door. No”

John: Yeah, you can’t escape it. Just call somebody.

Deborah: Right.

Jim: Deborah, this has been so good. Um, what’s the end of that story?

Deborah: Well I wasn’t about to give him a list. I had just heard about a guy who was not as s- s… uh, sensitive to his wife’s needs as mine. And… and… and I wanted to tell him that… that I was so appreciate the fact that he was.

Jim: Good.

Deborah: But he thought I was setting him up to ask him something.

Jim: Yes. Every man will. But that is good.

Deborah: Because it was Saturday. (laughs)

John: But it was a true compliment.

Deborah: Well it was a true compliment, and… and he liked it later, but he said, “Oh, I thought that was a setup so that you could ask me to do something.”

John: Well what a fun conversation with Deborah Pegues on today’s episode of Focus on the Family, and I’m sure if you’re like me, you’ve been a little convicted by her message.

Jim: Every time Deborah’s with us, she brings such good Biblical insight and wisdom, and practicality. That’s why she’s one of our most popular guests. And you know, here at Focus on the Family, we want to equip you in your faith walk so that you can be a better husband or wife. A better dad or mom. And we’re here with Biblical answers to your questions, and solutions to your struggles. We also have great resources available to you, like Deborah’s book, 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue. In fact, when you make a monthly pledge to the ministry of Focus on the Family today, of any amount, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for joining us in ministry. And if you can’t commit to a monthly amount, we get it. Uh, we’ll send that to you for a one-time gift as well. Your continued prayer and financial support allow us to provide much needed help to individuals and families. We couldn’t do this ministry without you.

John: Donate monthly, or as you can, and get your copy of Deborah’s book, 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue. The details are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 1-800-232-6459. 800, the letter A, and the word family. Well have a great weekend with your family, and your church family as well, and, uh, plan to be with us on Monday, as Colonel Allen West encourages us to have a really meaningful Memorial Day.

Preview:

Lt. Col. Allen West: Sign something to challenge your children and your grandchildren to do. And I think the greatest challenge is for them to understand the sacrifices that men and women have made throughout history in the United States of America, and a certain man had made on Calvary for their eternal life, and for their soul.

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