Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Preview

Woman #1: Every Saturday morning, my husband makes me breakfast and that’s just something that he does to show me how much he cares.

Man #1: Something that my wife and I do to stay connected is really get together once a month to go through our budget and take a look back at what we spent money on and take a look forward to kind of plan together.

Woman #2: Something I started doing years ago for my husband is I would sign off on our emails or text messages with the initials L-Y-S. Love you still.

Man #2: We love to do drama and working at community theater. And that’s one way that we connect and have something to talk about.

End of Preview:

John Fuller: Well, those are just some of the examples of kind of everyday rhythms of life that you can build into your relationship to improve your marriage. And we’ll be talking about more ideas today on Focus on the Family. I’m John Fuller, and thanks for joining us. Your host is Focus President and author, Jim Daly.

Jim Daly: John, you know, marriage is one of the things we talk a lot about on this broadcast. And, uh-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And parenting too. That’s about 80% of the program. We measure it. So, 75, 80% of the time, we’re talking about marriage and parenting. And today, we have a great show. And one of the difficulties that we often have is, we get into marital ruts, right? You’ll go through seasons, unfortunately, sometimes that could be years, where it just feels like you’re in a routine.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And you’re not breaking out of that and finding, meh, something deeper, something more rewarding in your relationship as a married couple. We’re gonna give you some ideas today to change that.

John: Yeah, and we’ve got Chris and Jenni Graebe with us to talk about some of the things that they’ve learned. Uh, they’re a husband-and-wife team, parents of five kids, and they host the podcast, The Rhythm of Us. And they’ve written a book, uh, called The Rhythm of Us: Create the Thriving Marriage You Long For. Look for a copy at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Chris and Jenni, uh, it’s great to have you here for the first time.

Jenni Graebe: Thank you so much. We’re so honored to be here.

Jim: Yeah.

Chris Graebe: Yeah, it’s gonna be fun.

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: And what a, what a great concept. I so appreciate the fact that you’re trying to strengthen marriages. I mean, that’s what we’re all doing, right? Hopefully, our own marriages, let me just say that. Christian leaders, we need to make sure we’re walking the talk. And Jenni, yo- you went to a graduation party where you saw a table of memories for, uh, your friend’s daughter.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that gave you some thoughts and ideas. Uh, that’s an interesting observation. Um… I don’t know that as a guy, I would’ve picked up on this.

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: But go ahead. What happened?

Jenni: Well, actually, I saw the pictures of the party. I wasn’t there. I was actually on a writing day. I was supposed to be writing, not inspired at all.

Chris: So, beating yourself up for that.

Jenni: So, yes.

Chris: (laughs)

Jenni: Just like, please… I, I’m just not inspired. And, uh, some friends, uh, a friend sent me pictures of her daughter’s graduation party. And I was looking through the pictures, and she had this beautiful round table for her 18-year-old daughter. And on the table was just all the precious things that made up her 18 years of life.

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: So there was a little baby rattle from when she was born, little set of footprints, a little guitar, some summer camp T-shirts. And, and as I was looking at these pictures, my eyes are, you know, welling up with tears because I have five kids of my own. I’m picturing sending them off and all the things that would be on their tables. And I just heard the Lord whisper, “What’s on your table?”

Jim: Wow.

Jenni: What do you want on your table?

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: And I just thought, oh my gosh. And we use this analogy in the book, um, thinking about our marriage. When we, when we get to 50 years, hopefully 60 years, what do we want on that anniversary table? Who do we want around the table? What do we want those to say about us that are standing around our table?

Jim: Not our dentures, that’s for sure.

Jenni: Yeah. (laughs) Not our dentures.

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: Maybe. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: Um-

Jim: But that’s a great thought.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: And especially in that context of marriage.

Jenni: Yes.

Jim: You know, what does your table represent about you as a couple?

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: That’s awesome. Chris, let me ask you. Uh… Taking a step back. Y- the book’s about rhythms, and ruts, and describe the rhythms. What are these patterns that you saw as a couple that are pretty generic to all couples?

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Chris: Well, I think one of the things we wanted to do when we set out here… It’s like, okay, God’s calling us to write this.

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: And we wanted to kind of think differently about this… A lot of marriage books, and they’re al- that’s all great. We talk about budgeting, and communication, and sex, and in-laws, and all that. And we, we wanted to give couples a framework that’s a little bit different, a- a framework that kind of puts them on the same side of the table versus pointing fingers at each other.

Jim: Right.

Chris: Basically asking couples the question, are you in rhythm or are you out of rhythm? And when people think about that question, immediately, every couple within seconds goes, “All right. I know where we’re out of rhythm. I know where we need to get in rhythm.”

Jim: That’s interesting, they know.

Chris: Oh, 100%.

Jim: Yeah.

Chris: Everyone, liste- they may not verbalize it, but everybody goes like, “Okay, we’re out of rhythm in this department in our life.” And so, what we wanted to do was give a framework, and just some context for a couple to be able to have a safe conversation with each other. Not to say, “Hey, you really need to get better at this,” but just like, “Hey, are we in rhythm in this area of our life? Or are we out of rhythm? And how do we get back in rhythm?”

Jim: Yeah.

Chris: So, we focus on these five different rhythms that are pretty easy to digest and easy for couples to kind of walk together and have those good, simple, hopefully healthy-

Jim: Good, yeah.

Chris: Conversations.

Jim: And before we get to the five, I wanna talk about the ruts for a second.

Chris: Yeah, sure.

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah.

Jim: Call it my personality type, I don’t know.

Chris: (laughs)

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Chris: Yeah.

Jim: But, uh, you know, ruts are the other thing you describe in, in the book. And y- you use a story, which I thought was really good, about your kids, and going to Disney, and and… So, sorry to out you on that, but you wrote the book-

Chris: (laughs) We did.

Jim: And it’s in there.

Jenni: We did.

Jim: So who, who has the story on the Disney rut? (laughs)

Jenni: Um, I’ll tell that story.

Chris: Take that story. (laughs)

Jenni: Yeah. (laughs)

Jim: ‘Cause I so-

Chris: Disclaimer, where’s the disclaimer?

Jenni: Nobody-

Jim: No, no, no.

Jenni: No.

Jim: I so relate to this.

Jenni: Okay-

Jim: So.

Jenni: Thank you.

Chris: (laughs)

Jim: Yeah, I’m with you-

Jenni: I’m glad I’m not alone.

Jim: 100%.

Jenni: I… And I’ve had, you know, people have different reactions to it, so.

Jim: Really?

Jenni: People-

Chris: Oh.

Jenni: I mean, if you love Disney, please just let me hear you say-

Jim: J- just call it the, any amusement park.

Jenni: It… Yes.

Jim: I mean, the concept is just taking your family.

Jenni: Like, we have nothing against Dole Whip-

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: And life-size cartoon characters. If that is your thing, please, please enjoy it. Um, we just learned the hard way that it was not for us.

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: Um, and we talk about in the book that there’s kind of three ways that we have observed in our own marriage that you can fall into ruts. There’s inherited ruts. There’s ruts that you kind of inherit from your family of origin that you just bring into your marriage without even realizing it, because you observed it. And then, there’s seasonal ruts. There’s kind of, you know, these… Things that used to serve you when you first got married don’t necessarily serve you when you’re in your 40s.

Chris: Yeah, things change.

Jenni: So you have to reevaluate as you change as a couple. And then, there’s cultural ruts, which is where I told this story. Where, it ca- it can become really easy to look around at the couples around us and say, well, they’re doing this. Maybe we should. They’re doing this. Maybe we should. Everybody takes their family to Disney World. Maybe we should! Um-

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: But from the moment we started having the conversation about going to Disney World, I had a pit in my stomach. I just… I did not wanna go. I kn- I knew that was not for us. I love taking th- I, you know, we talk about the vision you have for your marriage and your family. I wanna take them there. I wanna take them to the mountains, and the streams, and nature, and just be in that. That is my vision, absolutely, for time spent well with my family. And a crowded theme park-

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: Full of fake food and like sweaty people is-

Jim: Fake, expensive food.

Jenni: Oh, it is so ex-

Jim: Let me tell you.

Chris: (laughs)

Jenni: I… It was, I knew it was the opposite, and I just did not listen to that, that whisper in my spirit at all. And we decided to go for it. It was like, well, you know, we got some discounts. And like, we should probably, every family, you know, if you can-

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: You should probably take your kids to Disney World, so we said yes. And we spent an entire February day from morning till evening freezing and wh- it was so crowded. This was before COVID. So I mean, they shove as many people as possible into that theme park. Uh, we didn’t even see each other all day because it was like, “Okay, you take this one here. We’ll try and grab this ride here.” We, you know, we didn’t even get to spend any time together. And by the end of the day, we were so exhausted. All we could think about was getting to our nice, warm beds at the end of the day. And when we crashed-

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: In those beds, we looked at each other, and we were like, “Let’s never do this again.”

John: Hmm.

Jenni: “Okay?” Um, but the gift that we received from that day was learning, okay, it doesn’t matter what fills other people’s tanks. Like, if they wanna do that, that’s fine. It’s our job to evaluate, what, what brings us life?

Jim: Right.

Jenni: And make decisions based on those values, and that’s where the peace comes from when we make decisions for our family and for our marriage that line up with those values.

Jim: Okay, Chris. So what did the kids think of the day?

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: Did they (laughs) like it?

Chris: You know, u- u-

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: I don’t know.

Jenni: Probably.

Chris: You know, u-

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: U- I don’t… They won’t remem- they’re gonna look at pictures, right?

Jim: That’s true.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: That’s true.

Chris: You know, I, I look up and go, our four-year-old was much younger at the time. So you know, one day, she’s gonna send me a counseling bill-

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: Because she didn’t get to go to Disney World.

Jim: But she won’t remember.

Chris: And I’m-

Jenni: Ye- that’s fine.

Jim: Yeah. (laughs)

Chris: Okay with that.

Jenni: That’s fine.

Chris: You know? (laughs) Send me that bill?

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: I’ll pay that one ’cause-

Jim: Now, that’s really good. Now Jenni, let me ask you. You ob- observed, uh, how some couples can turn their stories about one another kind of into small jabs toward each other.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I can relate to that. I think if a person’s style might be verbal attack.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (laughs) You know, John, what do you think?

Jenni: (laughs)

John: Whoa. Whoa.

Jenni: He just looked right at you, John.

Jim: Sorry. No, I mean-

Jenni: (laughs)

John: And I am.

Jim: No, I… It just, you know, it’s not-

John: I am guilty of that.

Jim: It’s not-

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: No, no, no, me. I was talking about me.

John: Oh.

Jim: I mean, it’s not malicious. But it’s more like, I can go to a verbal spat with you, if you’d like to.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: And I’m gonna try to win.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: Yeah, I know. You don’t have to write or call us. I know that’s not appropriate, but-

John: (laughs)

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: I, u- my point here is, I’m relating to this, Jenni, that you know, you can turn a little, you know, even sarcasm into-

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: Something that’s not edifying for your spouse.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: So m- relate the experience that you had in that regard, and how you corrected it?

Jenni: Yeah, I think it’s really, really common, um, to use your spouse as the butt of a joke. I mean, it happens every week in the circles that we hang out with. Um, but the story I share in the book is, as a little kid, I was always that kid observing the people around me. I was-

Jim: How interesting.

Jenni: Like an obsessive observer, especially of relationships. You know, I grew up in a really loving family, wonderful parents, but they would be the first to tell you that they struggled in their marriage. That was their, their biggest struggle. And so, I didn’t see a couple that I wanted to emulate. I didn’t see a marriage I wanted to emulate in my own house. So, it caused me to kind of ferociously look for-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: An example outside of my house that I could find for inspiration. And so, every fall, um, in Texas, we would go on these trips together with other, other families. Um, and it was to the Texas Hill Country. And after a long, hot, burning summer, it was such a, a wonderful thing to celebrate, the crisp breeze finally coming, um, into Texas. And so we would go out to the Hill Country, and we would all… You know, all the kids would be surrounded at one end of the table, and all the adults around the other. And I always listened in to the adult conversations.

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: I was that kid, kind of scooting closer and closer to hear.

Jim: That’s where the intel was.

Jenni: That’s what it was.

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: That was the fun.

Chris: That’s exactly right.

Jenni: They were telling the good jokes over there. Um-

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: But you could start to hear. Each couple would kind of start sharing stories about their spouse. Listen to what Susie did last week, and-

Jim: Hm.

Jenni: And listen to what this idiot did. You know, or whatever the-

Jim: Right.

Jenni: The jab was. And, and it was funny, sure, but… You could watch their… I would watch their spouses face, and they would drop-

Jim: Hm.

Jenni: As they, as they were the butt of that joke. But there was one couple there that I noticed, Mike and Linda, and they just never seemed to join in that banter. In fact-

Jim: Interesting.

Jenni: The only stories that they shared about the other just revealed how much they really loved, and respected, and adored each other.

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: And it just stood out to me as a little kid, and I just made a mental note, okay, never throw your spouse under the bus. There’s something there.

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: They’re practicing this, and it’s showing up-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: In their marriage. They have the kind of marriage that I want. And here’s a key practice that I can kind of hold onto, even as a kid.

Jim: Well, and you caught it.

Jenni: I did.

Jim: That’s the thing.

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I mean-

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: Ev- even with our own children, you think they’d, they won’t notice.

Jenni: They do.

Jim: Oh, they’re listening to everything.

Jenni: They do.

Jim: Chris, let me ask you. Uh, give us some practical ways that we can speak life into our spouse.

Chris: Yeah, well, this is definitely one of the rhythms. And I wanna, before we finish on what she just shared, is this can be an inherited rut, right? The, the-

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: Jabbing thing.

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Jim: ‘Cause of what you observed as a child?

Chris: You learn this as a child.

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: Right?

Jim: Sure.

Chris: Yo- you hit it. It’s just, hey, we just as a family… We, u- u- you know, everyone, they kind of own it. Like, which, we al- we always love to poke fun at each other and go, and it’s just like-

Jim: And it was great!

Chris: Oh, yeah.

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: It, but it-

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: But you look up and go, you know what?

Jim: Yeah.

Chris: Like that is not a rhythm that’s going to bring life.

Jim: Yeah, good point.

Chris: And so, this idea of speaking life, which was one of the rhythms we put in the book is that really, we, we think this is the cornerstone of the other rhythms. If you can get to this place where you’re verbalizing and communicating to your spouse your gratitude, your appreciation for them, and really helping them understand, you know, how thankful you are for them. Like, it just is, it is money in the bank-

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Chris: That is going d-

Jim: Right.

Chris: To, to be a massive return on the side.

Jim: Great way to look at it.

Chris: Oh, 100%.

Jim: Yeah.

Chris: An- and you just look up, and… One of the practices that we talk about, even just practically speaking is like, we can go about our day. We’re busy. We have five kids. You know, y’all have kids. Everybody’s just busy, work, all that, or whatever. Now, I may be walking past her going, “Dang, she looks good today.”

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: And, and just keep walking, but I have a moment right there to literally just say, “Hey, you look so good today.” And in that moment, I could’ve just had the thought and gone on with my life. But just taking that m- brief second to tell her, tells her I love her. It’s speaking life. It’s, it’s putting chips in the bank that ultimately has the opportunity to let her know that I love her, I’m for her, and it’s just that speaking life that then reciprocates, right? Then she… And it just kind of stacks on top of each other.

Jim: Yeah. No, it’s-

Jenni: It builds the culture-

Jim: It’s really good.

Jenni: In a marriage.

Chris: Yeah.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: It’s really good. I- i- another positive rhythm that you have in the book is service.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I mean, I think everybody gets that, but practically, how does that work in your marriage?

Jenni: Well, it’s so important, right? And you know, of the five rhythms, just so people know, like, you know, we’ve been married almost 18 years. But in the grand scheme of things, that’s not that long.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: So, we-

Jim: Although, you’ll notice, young people go, “18 years!”

Jenni: 18… I know.

Chris: (laughs)

Jenni: It, it is-

Jim: How have you done that?

Jenni: I’m proud of it. I’m-

Jim: Wait till you say 35.

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah.

Jenni: 35.

Chris: (laughs)

Jim: Whoa.

Jenni: How long have you guys been-

John: N- almost 38. Yeah.

Jim: Yeah, that’s awesome.

Jenni: Okay, so you know, you know. And we, we really tried to sit with couples who had been married 50 years, 60 years-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: And learn from them in writing this book.

Jim: Oh, that’s good.

Jenni: So the five rhythms that we landed on are not only true of our marriage, we try and practice them. But they’re also true across the board-

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: In these couples that we admire, who’ve been not just married for decades, but in love with each other for decades. Those kind of couples that you go, “Oh my gosh, how do you still have that? I want that.” What are those common five rhythms? So that’s where the rhythms came from. But this rhythm of serving was true across the board. And they would all tell us, “That’s where you start, is serving each other.” It’s, it’s so important to get your eyes off of yourself and to see your spouse. You know? We just all wake up every morning and instinctively think of our own needs. That’s just human nature. That’s the way that we are. And it takes a lot of intentionality and practice to learn to see in a different way.

Jim: I think it’s the whole purpose of marriage, actually.

Jenni: It is.

Jim: To become selfless.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: Because who’s character is that?

Jenni: Ye- yeah-

Jim: It’s God’s character.

Jenni: It’s Jesus.

Chris: Right.

Jim: (laughs) So-

Jenni: Yeah, that’s what he does.

Jim: I mean, I think he created the institution of marriage-

Chris: Yeah.

Jim: To teach us this point.

Jenni: Yes, for sure.

Jim: And then we just blow right threw it.

Chris: Well, I think the beauty of the way we kind of postured these five rhythms is, e- everything that we’re trying to say, “Hey, learn this rhythm with your spouse,” comes from a relationship with Christ.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: Right.

Chris: Right? We should speak words of life to Christ. Like, w- in our prayer, in our worship, you know, when we’re serving… I- we’re serving the Lord, right? S- ultimately, it’s a great way to express what he’s doing through us, to our spouse. But you know, serving, the rhythm of serving is not the one everyone’s gonna run to the book and go-

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: “Ooh, let me read this chapter.”

Jenni: It’s not the sexiest one, yeah.

Chris: You know? Like-

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: It’s just definitely not-

Jim: That kind of says it all right there. I mean to your-

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: Yeah, yeah. You know-

Jim: Comment-

Chris: Yeah.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: About selfishness.

Jenni: Oh, yeah.

Chris: Well, I think for us, the way it kind of plays out for us is, I think you know, after a few years, we start to recognize, okay, there’s certain things she just does not and it’s really hard for her to do. And there’s certain things it’s, I- I don’t love to do. I mean, can I do the laundry? Yes, I’ll do the laundry.

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: But she doesn’t mind. So for me-

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: We talk about in the book, like-

Jim: Wait a second, you don’t mind?

Chris: Ye-

Jenni: I… Yeah. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) Yeah, I’m just checking. Go ahead.

Jenni: Yeah, well, we all have our least favorite chores. Right?

Chris: Right.

Jenni: You know?

Chris: Right.

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: And hers is, does not want, she does not wanna stick her hand in a dirty sink with dishes, so-

Jim: Okay.

Chris: I don’t mind it. I was a server for years. I put my hand in plenty of mashed potato-

Jim: Perfect.

Chris: For perfect strangers, right?

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: So I’ve got five kids, you can imagine how gross our sink can get at times, right?

Jim: Yeah.

Chris: So, we, we serve each other in that way. And, and those are just the practical things of life, but, uh, the thing for us that we learned, you know, a, a few years ago… Well, it was probably 15 years ago. You know, we-

Jenni: It was a really long time.

Chris: Early on in our marriage decided, Jenni’s gonna stay home with our kids. You know, she’s gonna stay home with our kids. I’ll go out and, and work. And so, by Thursday, she would kind of hit this wall. And we just kind of said, okay, what’s a way that I can serve her? Having my ears and eyes attuned to what’s going on in her life, how could I serve her? And so, uh, we decided, hey, Fridays, you just leave. Go out into the world, I’ll watch what-

Jenni: Whoever’s home. Yeah. (laughs)

Chris: However many kids have at home at the time… I’ll work from home. We’ll make it work. And then what happened was, she goes out into the world. A few hours later, she’s walking to the tree, she’s doing her thing. She’s like, “I love you guys so much.” Like, she just-

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: Needs a little space.

Chris: More… She just comes back.

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: You know?

Jim: That’s good. That’s good.

Jenni: U- you gotta fill your tank back up.

Jim: W- while-

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: We’re there… And John’s gonna mention how to get a copy of the book in just a moment, but we’re talking about speaking life and service for your spouse. What are the others just quickly before John jumps-?

Jenni: S-

Jim: In here?

Jenni: Slowing down.

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: Being present, um, seeking adventure, and staying in awe.

Jim: Okay, awesome.

Jenni: Yeah.

John: These are ways that you can bring balance and rhythm to your life as a married couple. And we would encourage you to contact us today and get a copy of the book by Chris and Jenni Graebe. It’s called The Rhythm of Us, and, uh, details are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: You mention in the book, um, about coming across… I th- I don’t know if it was a guy or a woman who mentioned that they m- had these dreams, but one dream was becoming a runner. And it was only a dream in his head.

Jenni: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Jim: U- th- it was kinda interesting, just a dream in his head. Describe it.

Jenni: Yeah, well, we were… You know, we were pastors for a really long time. So, we spent a lot of time in small groups, right?

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: Developing small groups, starting small groups. And this was one that we had started, so it was a group of strangers. And we kinda went around the circle. Everybody shared the top five things that they thought would help everyone get to know them. And he said, “Well, let’s see… I’m a, I’m a pastor. I’m a soon-to-be father. I’m a worship leader. And in my head, I’m a runner.” And everyone cracked up laughing, you know, because they know… We all resonate. We all have those things, those identities that we think we are in our heads. But if you look at our actual life, you’re like, you know what? I think I’m a runner in my head, but I actually haven’t run in a long time. (laughs)

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: And when he said that, I mean, light bulbs went off in my head. I j- he just put words to something I had been feeling in that season. But I was looking up in our life going, man… I, I feel like if you asked me, I would say, “You know, we go camping as a family. And we have a, a date night every week, romantic date nights, every single week. And I think I have a green smoothie every single morning of my life.”

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: There’s things I thi- I would tell you, this is who I am. This is what I do. But if I took a look at my actual life, they’re nowhere to be found. We haven’t gone camping. We haven’t had a date night in weeks. You know, like, so it just caused me to look at our life and go, wait a second. We’ve gotta get more intentional with our life, or we’re just gonna drift into a place we don’t wanna be.

Jim: You know, that’s a really good point, because I can relate to that. Jean and I will set the compass to move that direction, but it’s like the wind of life then takes you off course.

Jenni: It does.

Jim: Because you just get caught up in the day-to-day routine, and you got somebody calling that needs you, or-

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: You know, a couple that needs to talk with you, or whatever it might be. And so, it just kind of takes you away from the things that you planned.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: And now you’re beholden to the immediate, right?

Jenni: Yes.

Jim: What’s getting in your way.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: And you gotta kind of tack back toward that direction, which takes discipline. Let me, let me ask you too, Jenni. Y- you guys have moved quite a bit.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I’m thinking of spouses in the audience, uh, that are watching or listening, where their security comes from that home.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know that we’re building something together. Our kids are here. We don’t wanna uproot them out of elementary school, or oh my goodness, junior high.

Jenni: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, you really wanna do that to the kids, but you’ve had to make those decisions to support Chris in a couple of moves. What advice do you have for that spouse that’s…? You know, that’s a tough one.

Jenni: Yes, for sure. I mean, I can speak to this pretty freshly because we just moved, um, a couple years ago, u- after being in the same place for 10 years. You know, we were in Texas for 10 years. We were pastors there. So that kind of community-

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: Was so rich. I mean, we had friends who had become family. You know, th- our kids had grown up together. We had all had, you know, baby showers together. And just build these bonds that are, just feel irreplaceable. And then over time, we just sensed this invitation from the Lord for this big move to Franklin. And we had kind of always known that we would end up back there. It was just this sense that we had. That’s where we met, and fell in love, and started our family, and then went to Texas. And we just always thought we would come back, and… But when it became the reality of actually moving, like you said. Uprooting our kids, and-

Jim: Right.

Jenni: I had no… I- I said yes before I really had any clue what that would actually mean, and how heartbreaking that would be to leave all of that behind. But I think walking through it, you these last couple years, you know, it’s definitely… I think it can be a wilderness season that can-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Jenni: Also bring so much fruit. You know, we don’t ever wanna choose to walk through those wilderness seasons, but everyone will have them. If you follow God, the- you’re gonna have to walk through suffering. It’s just part of, of your walk with Him. And that’s what He does to bring the best fruit out of our lives, is walking through those seasons with Him, so.

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Yeah, and I, I would think, Chris too, you know, again… A husband can be erratic in those decisions-

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that’s not what we’re talking about.

Chris: No, no.

Jim: This is where it’s-

Jenni: No.

Jim: Prayed for, it’s thought through.

Jenni: Yes.

Jim: You know, it seems like a good opportunity, what have you. It’s not where there’s a deficit in there in that leadership, where you’re just erratically going from one place to another ’cause you’re not succeeding, or whatever it might be. So-

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: I wanna make sure we-

Chris: Yeah.

Jim: Make that point.

Chris: Well, I think i- I think in our years-

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: You know, our younger years, you just go, “Cool, look, shiny thing.”

Jenni: Let’s do it, yeah. (laughs)

Chris: “New opportunity, let’s go!”

Jim: (laughs)

Chris: And you just go-

Jenni: Yeah.

Chris: And you can feel the whiplash of that.

Jim: Yeah.

Chris: I, I think for us, the way we’re wired, and I’m imagining most of the people watching here is, I’m a very futuristic minded individual. She is kind of present and, and passer in. She loves to look back. She’s nostalgic. So in a move like that, when we’re gonna make those decisions, it hits me like a ton of bricks in that moment, and then it’s over. Uh, it takes a little bit of time. When we live in it, she starts to go, “Oh, gosh. This is more of the reality.” And so the grieving process is a little longer for her. Where for me, I understand-

Jim: Yeah, let’s go.

Chris: Wait… Hits me like a ton of bricks. Like, oh I’m so sad. I miss my friends. Like, wow. You really, really cried at that going away party.

Jenni: (laughs)

Chris: Like, ’cause I know, it’s over, and then we move on and move on with the life. But it’s just understanding your spouse’s wiring and how they’re wired. And depending on where you sit, to go like let me just help her get some time to walk through this. A- and our prayer, and what God has done in our life, is generally, when we find ourselves in a place of comfort, we start to see a little bit of a drift.

Jim: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris: Because it’s like, oh, seasons, schedules… But when it’s tough, when we have to lock arms and fight together… Like, against all the odds that are stacked against us, it draws us close together. When there’s nothing else, we don’t have anything else but each other, and the Lord, uh, those are those seasons, you go, “Wow. We got refined a little bit more in this season. I trust you more. I love you more. I, I, I’m so grateful for you, that you had grace for me as were trying to navigate this new season.” And that, that… Those are some really special times for us.

Jim: Now, that is really good. Let me, let me ask you… U- u- covering a little bit of the staying in awe that you mentioned, the last one. Um, you had a podcast guest who actually were on our program, Mark and Jan Foreman.

Jenni: Hm.

Jim: Terrific people.

Jenni: We love them, yeah.

Jim: They’re the parents of the Switchfoot guys.

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: As, (laughs) as they’re known as, the parents of-

Chris: The Switchfoot-

Jim: The Switchfoot guys. (laughs)

Chris: The Switchfoot guys. (laughs)

Jenni: Yeah. (laughs) I love that, yeah.

Jim: But you know, real popular band, crossover band. You know, they’ve hit it well, and they’re great young men. I’ve met ’em a few times and they’re just great guys. But, uh, they said something to you when you were doing a podcast with them that I think is a beautiful place to end today.

Jenni: It is.

Jim: Um, what did they express to you?

Jenni: Yeah, we love the Foreman’s.

Chris: Yeah.

Jenni: They are a huge mentor couple for us, and we’ve had several times with them. They’ve taught us so much. But one of the things that they taught us, um, was what they call step into the painting. And it’s this idea of, if you’re driving by a sunset, don’t just keep driving.

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: Pull over and take it in. You know, if you’re at the playground with your kids, don’t you dare stay on that park bench. Get up and join in the fun. If everyone breaks out dancing around you, don’t stay on the couch. You get up and join in that party. And the whole idea, the beautiful way that they put that, is that this is the one life we get-

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: To live together.

Jim: That’s good.

Jenni: You know? And it’s an incredible gift, enjoy it. Don’t just sit back.

Jim: (laughs)

Jenni: And watch it unfold in front of you. Step into-

Jim: Yeah.

Jenni: Your life.

Jim: I’m laughing because of the number of times I played groundsies on the play-

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: Equipment with my boys.

Jenni: Good. Yeah.

Jim: And if you don’t know the game, look it up. I’m not gonna tell you.

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: But we must’ve played that 200 times, camping and everything else. (laughs)

Jenni: Yeah.

Jim: But that was always my attitude. Let’s jump in. Let’s play.

Jenni: Yeah. It’s-

Jim: Not sit-

Jenni: It’s where the-

Jim: And read a newspaper.

Jenni: Greatest moments happen.

Jim: Yeah. Well, what a great conversation, uh, Chris and Jenni. You guys, you’ve really brought it. What a great book. And I hope, if you’re in that spot, where you feel like you’re in a rut, and you don’t know the way out… This book will fill you with ideas, uh, The Rhythm of Us. And I wanna make sure you can get a copy. If you can make a gift of any amount, uh, hopefully a monthly gift, but a one-time gift as well, we’ll send it to you as our way of saying thank you for joining the ministry. And what a great resource to have, especially for marriages that are doing okay but could do much better.

Chris: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Get to that place. And I’m gonna go home tonight, Jean’s gonna say, “Did you hear what you said?” (laughs)

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: Absolutely, I’m hearing.

Jenni: (laughs)

Jim: So, uh-

Chris: (laughs)

Jim: You know, u- I’m looking forward to applying many of these things to our own marriage, even though we’ve been married 35 years. So I would do that… Also, we have a great, uh, marriage assessment online. It’s free. Uh, you can take that. We’ve had well over a million couples do that, and it’ll point out some areas that you’re doing well, and some areas where you may need to do a little better, so check it out today.

John: Yeah, go ahead and stop by our website, that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast to find all the details, uh, about how to donate, get the book, and take that free marriage assessment. You can also call us. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.

Jim: Chris and Jenni, thanks for being with us. This has been so much fun. Thanks for putting these wonderful thoughts down into your book. It’s great.

Jenni: Thanks for having us.

Chris: Thank you. Been fun.

Jim: Yeah.

John: Mm-hmm. And we hope you enjoyed this episode of Focus on the Family as much as we did. And, uh, coming up tomorrow, a homicide detective sets out to prove the existence and claims of Jesus Christ.

Preview:

1. Warner Wallace: If I don’t trust anything the New Testament tells me about Jesus, is there enough evidence in the fuse and fallout of history to show me what happened in the First Century? Even if I had nothing from the crime scene, if I had nothing from the New Testament.

End of Preview