Day One:
Eliza Huie: Instead of thinking, “Well, they just have anger issues.” What if we got curious and asked-
Jim Daly: That’s really good.
Eliza: …”What makes that so difficult? What makes that situation difficult for you?” And as a counselor, of course, I’m always gonna ask the question of, “When else have you felt this way?”
John Fuller: That’s Eliza Huie and she’s with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, sharing how we can show the love of Christ to people who’ve been through really difficult, painful experiences. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim: You know, John, offering Christ-like love we, you know, are not perfect people. We’re trying to do the best we can as believers in Christ, but to offer Christ-like love and practical counseling tools to people who are struggling has always been close to the heart of us here at Focus on the Family. That’s our ministry. That’s what we do. We have caring Christian counselors and a heap of resources. I think people just need to realize Focus is a resource center for you.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Especially in the areas of marriage and parenting. And, uh, we wanna support you in that. And if, uh, you have had trauma in your life, today’s conversation is gonna be, uh, right at you. And if you know people that have had trauma in their life, this is gonna really help equip you to help them.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Which is part of the call as a Christian.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Eliza Huie and her husband have three adult children and one grandchild, and she’s the director of counseling at McLean Bible Church and is a podcaster and professor. And she’s written a book that, uh, we’re only gonna be able to touch on today. It’s a really rich resource. It’s called Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care. And you can learn more about Eliza, uh, her ministry and this great book at our website, and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Eliza, welcome to Focus on the Family. First time.
Eliza: Yes. Thank you so much for having me and for having this conversation, which I think is so essential.
Jim: Let me ask you, this is a heavy topic. I mean, I’m looking right at the YouTube viewer and speaking to the listeners. Sometimes this can be really difficult. Uh, we go through trauma.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: All of us. I mean, I think life deals trauma to us.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I think the Lord has a purpose in it. It’s always that big question, why do people suffer if God is a loving God?
Eliza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: I don’t know if you’ve wrestled with that.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Uh, but as a trauma expert, you’re certainly seeing the fallout of a fallen world. What conclusions do you have-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: … with that question?
Eliza: You’re asking the question that a lot of people ask, and I would even say a lot of believers ask and sometimes feel a level of shame, and, uh, like, “Why am I even wrestling with this? Because I believe God who God is, but in light of my circumstance, it feels like this just doesn’t make sense. If God is good, then why am I going through this?” And what I would say to that is, we need to get comfortable with people asking those kind of questions when suffering, crisis, struggle, trauma intercepts their life, because that’s really the cry of the Psalms, right?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: We see that throughout the Psalms is this willingness to say, “How long God or have you forgotten me?” That’s the cry that people are asking. They’re asking that why question. And I would say what we need to do is just be able to say, “You know what? That’s a really good question.” And what I would encourage us as believers to avoid is don’t feel the pressure to answer for God.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: Like we, we can sometimes feel like, “Well, we gotta say all the right theological answers about who God is,” but it’s okay to actually let them say, “This is hard and I don’t understand it, and I wanna ask why.” And in a sense, they’re speaking the Psalms.
Jim: I agree. I think that was one of the best answers I’ve ever heard. I think it may have been the late Tim Keller from Redeemer Presbyterian-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … in New York City-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Who said, “Those are questions that we can’t even answer.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: We don’t know why children suffer.”
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, if you try to answer that, you’re probably not even gonna get near the answer God might give.
John: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: So we have to say, we don’t know, you know.
Eliza: And it’s also okay to, to not have the answer, but to actually express, “It’s okay to ask that question though.”
Jim: And again, these are just hard things to comprehend and we don’t have the answers.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But we have, I would say like compass direction, what the scripture’s telling us, what mature, deep-rooted Christians can help us think through.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: Let’s start with the story of, is it Tiana?
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I’m sure that’s not her real name.
Eliza: Right? No, it is not.
Jim: But it’s somebody that you had contact with.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: She suffered terrible trauma. Describe what happened to her.
Eliza: Yeah. So in, in that story, you have somebody who had an incident. She had a, a pretty catastrophic house fire, but she had other little things along the way. And even though the house, and this happens with real life situations, all the time I see them, the trauma can be significant. And then it gets, like the situations get rectified. The house is rebuilt. You’re able to recover the, the loss and so forth. But she had other things that happened along the way. And I think it begs to answer a question as to, and this is why I bring this story up, is because sometimes you can have two people go through similar situations. One person goes through this really catastrophic situation and it’s, they’re traumatized, another and they’re not. And so that question is, why is that? What makes something traumatizing? And I think that’s the question we’re all wanting to know as we walk with people or as we encounter things in our own lives. And I think that’s so important to understand because there, there are some characteristics that are important to know about your own story or the story of somebody you love who you realize have been through something, what causes, what I’m gonna call traumatization. Because that’s what we’re seeing is that those, those signs that the traumas had an impact on them.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: What causes that is four things. Really. The first thing is it is overwhelmed. The person’s been overwhelmed with something. And this can happen with little children, what, what we call complex trauma-
Jim: Sure.
Eliza: … over and over and over again. But they’re overwhelmed. It’s too much too soon, too fast for them. So that’s the first characteristic of what could cause traumatization. The next one is powerlessness. No voice, no choice, and no ability to change the situation. So think of like a car accident that causes somebody to be traumatized. You know, in that situation where you are going to hit that other car or a car’s coming at you, you have no ability to change that. So overwhelmed, powerlessness… alone.
Jim: Yeah, that’s a big one.
Eliza: This one’s huge.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: It’s huge because it’s the way we used to look at trauma early on in psychological history. They used to think of it as, “What’s wrong with you? Something’s wrong with this person.” And they would kind of scratch their head and go, “That person’s broken. What’s wrong with them? And then through research and through time and really through the Vietnam War, ’cause that’s when we started to hear in the States start understanding trauma better and, and doing some trauma work.
Jim: PTSD, for example. Yeah.
Eliza: PTSD, it entered into our diagnostic manual. And so then instead of asking, “What’s wrong with you?” They started asking, “What happened to you?” Which is much more compassionate.
Jim: Right, and accurate.
Eliza: And much more accurate.
Jim: (laughs) Right.
Eliza: Well, now years, this is now it’s been another 50 years or so, now we’re asking an even better question. We’re asking the question of, “Who was with you?” Because being alone, meaning having nobody to process it with, nobody noticed, nobody heard, nobody even asked
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: Causes that traumatization. But it is really that that whole person, and that’s really why I wrote this book, is I wanted people to understand that specifically with trauma, we have to have a whole person approach. We can’t just say, “What happened to you emotionally or what’s going on spiritually or what happened to you physically?” But we have to have that whole person approach. And so it’s so key. I created a basic trauma questionnaire that’s in the book. It’s also on my website free if that’s easier. But it’s to help the layperson say, “How do I know if what my loved one or even what I have dealt with is traumatizing?” And so just tried to create it very simply-
Jim: That’s good.
Eliza: … with the resources of other counselors, kind of giving feedback on that.
Jim: I think, again, I want to make sure we’re clear about the idea that you’ve captured in the book here that it’s good for you to be not formally trained.
Eliza: Right.
Jim: You don’t need to be formally trained, but you can read a book-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and be better, um, informed-
Eliza: Yes.
Jim: … as to how to identify someone who might be going through trauma. You know, one way I’ve described it, maybe I use this metaphor too much, but it’s like a car accident. I’ve seen car accidents.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And that’s why I refer to it because it’s like you’re saying to yourself as you’re watching this, “Am I really seeing what I think I’m seeing?”
Eliza: Yes.
Jim: ‘Cause it’s, it’s odd. It’s unusual. It’s not what, seeing somebody drive down the wrong side of the road, you’re going, “Is that person really on the wrong side of the road?”
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It’s like your brain has to catch up-
Eliza: It’s trying to figure it out.
Jim: … with what’s happening. And I think identifying somebody who’s dealing with trauma at different degrees, I think we could all recognize somebody who’s highly traumatized.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But it, it’s like that you’ve gotta say to yourself, “Did I really just hear what they said?”
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And did they really mean what they just said? Because that’s a flag.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: How do we get to that point where we can be effective as Christians?
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: To say, “It feels like something might be wrong. How can I help you?”
Eliza: Oh, that’s so good. And I’m, I’m- you are capturing the heart of why I wrote the book was I didn’t write this book for other counselors necessarily, though I think counselors can be helped by it. I wrote it and I had somebody tell me, and this was probably the best compliment I had, was that I took theories and models and, and understanding like psychological terms and boiled them down to very accessible practical ways. I mean, the subtitle is a Christian’s guide.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: … to help in care. And so one of the things I think is so important is for us to realize the multifaceted aspect of trauma. Is that, okay, I can’t just look for what I think somebody like, sometimes we think, oh, they’re all of a sudden they disassociate. Or we think of like the backfire of a car and then all of a sudden somebody drops to the floor or whatever and that’s what I’m looking for with traumatization. No, actually it will show up in hyper awareness of just like being very aware of my surroundings or being very uncomfortable. Let’s say if you go into a, uh, maybe a small group. ‘Cause you know, churches, lots of people have small groups and the, just the discomfort of being in another person’s home, needing to see the doorway wherever they sit. Or being uncomfortable with being asked very personal questions that are just, I wanna get to know you a little bit more. Those are some of the things that we wanna think about. Sometimes I think we can misdiagnose trauma as like anti-social. They just don’t, they’re not very social or high anxiety or anger can sometimes also be a protective way of dealing with the trauma responses that they’re dealing with or detachment is huge.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: And people wanna be attached. I, I mentioned being alone is part of what causes it to be traumatizing, but they get stuck in that.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And it becomes like, now I wanna detach from everybody. And so they end up, unfortunately it can end up being really a cause of conflict in close relationships.
Jim: Right. Kind of comfortable in your uncomfortableness.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: It’s an odd, odd thing.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But it is accurate.
John: Yeah. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and today Eliza Huie is with us and uh, we’re just getting into this topic of trauma and uh, it’s pretty widespread and that’s why this is such a great book, uh, that we’re talking about Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care. Uh, get a copy of the book from us here at the ministry and uh, you can find that at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: You know, you mentioned in the book signs of trauma.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I just wanna list ’em quickly-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: … and we can come back and point out a couple triggers is one.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Recurrent memories or dreams, avoidance, unwanted somatic responses and then, uh, mood disturbances and arousal responses. The triggers one-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: This is kind of interesting that you mentioned that a moment ago. The distinction between somebody just being upset. I remember being at a coffee place and this woman ordered right in front of me, so I had the whole thing. She ordered, you know, this latte and she wanted it at 104 degrees.
Eliza: (laughs).
Jim: And I’m going, “Oh, this’ll be interesting.”
John: (laughs)
Jim: And you know, and had a lot of foo foo stuff in it as well. Chocolate mocha or whatever. Anyway, she gets it at the other end and she sips it and she goes into a tizzy.
Eliza: Mm.
Jim: Like, “This is not 104 degrees, this is more like 101.” And first of all, I’m going, “Wow, you have an-
Eliza: That’s impressive.
Jim: Amazing temperature gauge,” but she flew off the handle. Seeing this now that’s more of a trigger of something deeper going on in her.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It’s not the superficial thing. This woman is really weird about her coffee.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It’s saying something else.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: What in that context, you’re not gonna do anything ’cause that’s just odd to engage in that.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And they corrected it and they made it hotter for her. I, if it were me, I’d probably do 107 then (laughs).
Eliza: (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jim: But just let’s leave that to the side, but speak to that kind of thing about how people engage like that, that are upset about just everyday things that go wrong.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: Driving.
Eliza: Right.
Jim: Oh my goodness.
Eliza: Right.
Jim: Like driving is unhinged now.
Eliza: Right. Yeah. And this was something that I, I wrestled with in the book because as a counselor I see a lot of those things. What you described is very common in just like day-to-day relational conflict or people’s just struggles that they have in, in everyday life. And I have to wrestle like, is this trauma or is this not? And so I struggled with, “Do I put this in the book?” And I actually did put a section on there when it’s not trauma. Because I do think it’s also important for us to recognize that there are some things in us that might even look like, “Oh, maybe there is something deeper.” And that deeper could be trauma. Or that deeper could be I have a very, uh, high opinion of my comfort zone or something like that. (laughs) You know? And, and so I think the key is to understand where, when, when we look at that acronym that you just listed, is-
Jim: That is an acronym for trauma?
Eliza: Yeah. It’s the acronym for for trauma.
Jim: I should have pointed that out.
Eliza: Yes. Is it just one of those things? Because if it’s just one, then I would say, you know, maybe not trauma, but if it’s multiple ones and if the triggers are not just now I’m upset, but the triggers take me back. ‘Cause let me just explain quickly what a trigger is. A trigger is what I call a memory link.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: So it’s linking to something else that happened, but it is packed full of the emotions, the feelings, the, not just the emotional feelings, but the physical feelings of that terrible event that I went through. And those things all come back and they’re smashed together with no space in between and they feel it all over. So think of a trigger of like being right back in that moment with no warning.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: People who have triggers do not want triggers. They’re not trying to like over, you know, because that’s a word we throw out there a lot. “Oh, you’re triggering me.” People who are truly traumatized will do everything they can. That’s part of the, the first a there to avoid anything that’s gonna remind them of trauma. And so we wanna get curious, is this other things that are happening? Maybe some relational struggles or maybe, you know, some, some anger issues that I have that aren’t related to trauma. Or are there some of these other things connected to it as well?
Jim: You know, one of the things, um, with society, if we could put it in this context, I remember an example that I had, uh, where I was in D.C. there were people protesting in the street.
Eliza: Mm.
Jim: Uh, more of like an Antifa kind of situation. And I was coming out of a meeting in a suit and tie. So I think they kind of figured who I was. You know, I’m some kind of maybe D.C. person, which I’m not.
Eliza: (laughs)
Jim: But I’m walking and two women come to confront me, one holding a phone and there are many people coming out of this event. And she came up and she was very crass and using foul language and saying things to me. And I remember I felt a whirly weird piece. I mean, I was not offended by her. And I remember just looking at her right eye to eye and I said, “What kind of relationship did you have with your dad?
Eliza: Hmm.
Jim: … that has driven you to act like this?”
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: She went stone quiet. She didn’t react to it. She just looked like I had just hit her with a two by four.
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: Emotionally, and the other girl noticed that. And then she began to engage me and that girl just stood there and I could tell it connected.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And to the point in the book you mentioned that, that people that are expressing deep disrespect or you know, anger behavior, there could be that thing that happened to them.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: That or many things that have happened to them that cause them to lean into that kind of activity. Describe that and, and the attitude we should have as Christians-
John: Mm.
Jim: … in that situation. I’m, I could always have two responses. I’m no super Christian, believe me. I could act outta my flesh and respond to her, or I can try to find the peace of God-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: … and respond with what He would want me to respond with.
Eliza: Exactly. Well, and you demonstrated it so well. What I would say is when you have a situation where you’re wondering, “‘What is going on? Why are you so upset about this? What makes this so significant?” where maybe the next person would be able to handle this question or this situation in, in the coffee shop or whatever. The thing that you did was so right, is that when we don’t know, the best thing that we can do, and I talk about this quite a bit, is to ask, ask a question. Because what we tend to do is we tend to assume, oh, she’s just fill in the blank or this is the, the platform she’s, you know.
Jim: Her ideology.
Eliza: Yeah, exactly. And so we assume a lot about the person. We assume a lot about their circumstance and yet we don’t know. So you did, you modeled it right there. And so I would say even as a church, when we are having people come into our small groups or into our Bible studies or into our congregation, and you notice there’s something different about this person, you know what, they always sit on the, the fifth row from the right, the last seat. And somebody was sitting there and they got so upset instead of thinking, “Well, they just have anger issues.” What if we got curious and asked-
Jim: That’s really good.
Eliza: … “What makes that so difficult? What makes that situation difficult for you?” And as a counselor, of course, I’m always gonna ask the question of, “When else have you felt this way?” Because that’s what we’re looking for. And I just give a ton of questions that you can ask because you did it right there. We don’t wanna assume, because when we assume we don’t ask.
Jim: Question asking really is a diffuser.
Eliza: It really is.
Jim: You know, another thing, and you’ve gotta think maybe especially if you’re in the realm of being in the culture, engaging people that disagree with you, another one is just to say, “What has brought you to this place?”
Eliza: Exactly.
Jim: “Why do you believe what you believe?”
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And I kind of in my mind envision this big balloon that’s full of air and when you ask a question like that, “It kind of goes whoosh.”
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And some of that air pressure is let out and-
Eliza: I was just-
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: I was just having a conversation with a colleague of mine, Kurt Thompson, and he, he asked the question, he said, “We should ask what makes this make sense?” And I think that’s what you did with that lady. What makes this make sense?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And if you can just simply ask that question, that can go a long way in diffusing the situation. And really what are we doing? We’re being like, Jesus, who was masterful at asking questions. “Who, who touched me?”
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: “Do you want to be well?”
Jim: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Eliza: “Where is your husband?” Like these are questions that He did not need to ask, but He asked to draw them out and to understand their story.
John: Yeah. Yeah. And I was actually talked to one of my, uh, children the other day and I said, “It’s not the first question. Most of us can figure out a first question.”
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
John: It’s what you just said, it’s the second question that kind of gives people a sense of, “Oh, you really do care.” But that’s-
Eliza: That’s huge.
John: That’s so hard in our everyday conversations.
Eliza: Well, let me give you a little cheat because you are 100% right. That first question just gets the conversation rolling and says, “I wanna know.” And the second question is where we as the question askers get a little bit nervous, like, “Okay, now I don’t know what to ask.” (laughs) Right, exactly. I can’t tell you how many times people said what just gimme… and that’s why I did list a bunch of questions in the book.
Jim: Mm-hmm .
Eliza: But take this as just your little cheat. What do I need to know about what I already know? So that first question gives you something. So then just ask more about what they just gave you.
Jim: Go a little deeper.
Eliza: Yep. About the same stuff.
Jim: You also in the book talk about, um, three simple ways to help people combat trauma. These are real common sense things, but again, it’s almost like you need to think of that before it happens or it won’t be on the tip of your tongue. But those three were encourage care for the body, create a safe and supportive environment and explore expanding their community of support. So just describe that, it can sound a little complicated, but just describe those really quick.
Eliza: Well, the first one, just encouraging the care for the body. You’re not doing good trauma care if you leave the body out. That’s just the bottom line, that’s just the way it works. Because guess where the body was when they experienced trauma. It was right there with them. It was in that car accident. It was in that horrible living situation. It was-
Jim: What does, what does that advice sound like though? What, how do I say to somebody, “Boy, it’d be good for you to care for your body.”
Eliza: Yeah. Well some of it is even just recognizing like maybe they’re not caring for their body, but you as a person mean, what I mean by that is-
Jim: Ah.
Eliza: I wanna actually attend to what’s happening in their body. So when I say good trauma, if you’re doing trauma care without the body, you’re not doing trauma care. When you are sitting with me, talking with me and you have that moment of, “Okay, I’m now talking to the, to the real situation now.” We have to pay attention to what the body is doing because the body is what kept you alive in that circumstance. And you guys probably have heard the fight, flight or freeze responses that are very common. That’s what happens in trauma. You’re triggering one of those fight, flight or freeze. And the body will do that to keep you alive. But it will keep doing that in that moment. And so for example, you might notice that somebody either like checks out mentally or they kind of get up and leave even.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: … a conversation. They may not be being rude. That might be the flight response that they knew in that trauma. So helping them understand that when you’re feeling that there are physical sensations, how can you actually address that? So one of the things I try to do is just give a whole lot of actual exercises that I do just kind of invited you into my counseling room and said, “Let’s talk about how we can address the body through breathing.” Breathing is the number one way your body goes into fight, flight or freeze. That’s how it starts is you, your breathing starts to change. You just don’t notice it.
Jim: Ah.
Eliza: Well if that’s how your body moves into fight, flight or freeze, guess what? That’s how it moves out of it as well. And we can activate the other, the parasympathetic, uh, nervous system, which is the rest, digest and process. We talk a lot about fight, flight or freeze. So I talk about how you can address the body and bring them back into the rest, digest and process through breathing, through meditating on scripture and how scripture can also do that.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: But really addressing that because we are embodied souls, which means we live out embodied faith and we need to go to where the, the hurt started and a lot of times, um, it started in the body.
Jim: Yeah. Some physical encounter.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Let’s hit quickly then create a safe and supportive environment. I think it’s self-explanatory, but give us the-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: … definition.
Eliza: Well, we’ve already started talking about that with the, let’s not assume, let’s not assume, but let’s ask and be willing to be patient, to be patient with the person, to be patient with yourself when you don’t know what to say ’cause you’re not gonna know what to say and that’s okay. You might actually say, “I feel like I should say something right now and I don’t know what to say.” And that might be the most helpful thing that you could possibly say. So you’re trying to create that safety, that, that connection because in trauma they didn’t feel safe. And so what we wanna do is not create another unsafe place. We wanna say, “We’re gonna go at your pace. I’m gonna ask a lot of questions and you get to even tell me I’m not ready to answer that question.” And giving them that permission is really good for creating safety.
Jim: You know, and lastly then explore expanding their community of support. We just earlier talked about the loneliness factor.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, how does a person that’s in this lonely generation now-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: … connecting digitally, but not really with people. How do you expand their support base?
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: What does that sound like?
Eliza: Well, as a counselor, one of the first things I’m doing is looking at who else knows this story. So if, if somebody has been willing to tell you their trauma story, ask that question, “Does anybody else know this story?” And if they say, “No, I’ve never told it to anyone else but you,” then you know, you gotta expand their circle. But if they say, “Well, I’ve told my best friend from high school, she knows about it.” Well, I’m gonna be bringing that best friend into the conversation. Even if they’re not physically there, just thinking about, “I wonder what Susie or Sally, whatever her name is, would say if you’d shared this with her.” And even help them think, “What would it look like to share this with maybe a trusted friend at church?” Not we’re gonna share it this week. That’s not a homework assignment, but let’s talk about even what that would look like. That’s expanding their circle without even bringing another person in just yet.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: Just getting them to think about that is so key.
Jim: Well, this is so good. Um, I’d like to keep rolling and we’ll come back next time with a day two. ‘Cause this is, I think, touching so many people’s hearts.
Eliza: Mm-hmm. That’s good.
Jim: And, uh, thank you for being here and talking about these things and let’s come back next time and continue. Can we do that?
Eliza: Sounds great.
Jim: And to those of you listening and watching, I hope you will feel equipped to come alongside people who are struggling or maybe this program impacted you because you’ve been dealing with trauma. If you could use some extra support, give us a call. We have caring Christian counselors who can talk to you over the phone and help you take those first steps to find hope and healing.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Set up a consultation with our caring Christian counselors when you call 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY or visit focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: And another great resource for you to get is Eliza’s book, Trauma Aware. It has so many more of her insights and to caring for those we love and understanding the ways the mind and body connect. Uh, we have copies for you here at Focus on the Family and when you make a gift of any amount and join us in ministry, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for your support. Uh, because we are a nonprofit ministry, we need your donations to keep making these resources and counseling and all the other helps here at Focus available. If you have benefited from the program today, please show your appreciation by financially supporting us. Every dollar you give goes right back into ministry so we can help hurting people, save marriages, and support parents raising the next generation.
John: Mm. Donate today and get your copy of Eliza Huie’s book, Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care when you call 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. You can also donate and get details by clicking on the links at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with Eliza and once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Day Two:
Eliza Huie: And so, we wanna hold onto the fact that trauma does not get the last word. Trauma is not more powerful than our God, who raised our Savior from the dead. If He can do that, He can overcome this circumstance.
John Fuller: Insights from Eliza Huie, and she’s back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. She’ll be sharing more about how to support those who are struggling with trauma. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Eliza has so much practical insight into showing compassion to people who have dealt with trauma. Uh, yesterday we talked about processing trauma from a Christian perspective, so I would really recommend you to go back and listen to that if you missed it.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Uh, here at Focus on the Family, we provide resources for families that include both biblical truth and practical counseling tools. And we have podcasts, articles, books, and so much more to help you navigate day-to-day challenges that crop up in your family. But we also wanna offer help to those of you dealing with particularly heavy issues like trauma from your past or from the past of someone you love. And today we’re going to talk about showing empathy to others and provide some tools for healing from trauma.
John: Mm-hmm. And our guest, uh, as we said, is Eliza Huie. She’s the Director of Counseling at McLean Bible Church and teaches counseling classes for Metro Baltimore Seminary. We’re talking about one of her books today called Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care. And you can get details about that book and all the resources we have here at Focus to help you, uh, and when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Eliza, it’s good to have you back. Thanks for sticking with us.
Eliza: Absolutely. It’s a great conversation.
Jim: Yeah. You know, it really is. And that’s why we wanted to continue today, because there’s so much in these people that experienced trauma. Let me start with a story. Um, a friend of mine years ago, I’ll just call him Jack, that’s not his real name (laughing), but, um, he confessed to me something that had happened. He was a type A-driven business guy, and, you know, everything was in order. He was the leader of the sales team. He always did well, high achiever. And one day we were just talking, and he said, “You know, the reason I think… And I’ve never shared this with anybody, kind of what you said last time.”
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: “I think the reason I’m like this is when I was a little boy, my neighbor molested me.”
Eliza: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: “And every day I get up thinking, how do I become clean-”
Eliza: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: “Through working hard.”
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: That’s significant.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: I mean, obviously, and there’s so much in that.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But again, behavior, even like that very productive behavior.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Very rewarded behavior.
Eliza: Right.
Jim: But he recognized the root of where this was coming from.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: In multiple marriages, because he just burned his spouses out.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, you just, with all the type A stuff.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, uh, you know, again, that’s where you can gently or even aggressively say, “Hey, I think it’d be good for you to get help.”
Eliza: Yeah. Yeah.
Jim: What would you do in that situation?
Eliza: Well, not… And just even hearing that that’s, again, evidence that you were a safe place in that moment, or he wouldn’t have shared that with you at all. I guarantee you, he wouldn’t have shared that if you hadn’t developed some kind of a relationship with him where he felt safe. And that’s what we wanna do as believers. We wanna have relationships because we can live in the chronic superficial, and people aren’t helped in that space.
Jim: Well, let me just say, to get that, you have to be authentic.
Eliza: You do.
Jim: You have to share things that didn’t go well in your life.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: You have to be real. You have to be approachable. You have, and those aren’t things, it’s not like a play. We’re not acting.
Eliza: No.
Jim: This needs to be who we are.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And then, people are drawn to that.
Eliza: They are.
Jim: Now, I feel comfortable knowing you’re not perfect (laughs).
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: Because people think as Christians sometimes, “Oh, you must be perfect.” Oh my goodness. That is not the plan.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: We are sinners saved by grace, trying to do better.
Eliza: Yes.
Jim: That’s why, you know, but I think that idea of approachability and authenticity-
Eliza: Authenticity, yeah.
Jim: … are so critical.
Eliza: They are, because they, they go against… Remember what I said, that you get traumatized because you were overwhelmed. You were… You felt powerless, and you felt alone. Those three things are really important. And what you’re doing in that moment is you’re basically communicating you are not alone. And I think that’s one thing that we can do as a church, besides being authentic, besides being willing to be vulnerable, is to actually create a space where we talk about these things. So, if your church never mentions the word trauma from the pulpit, that would be a good thing to be able to do, to become more trauma aware, is, let’s actually say these words. Let’s actually talk about the things that are in our church pews.
Jim: Let me ask this. Do you think… And I’ll… There’s a couple things I’m gonna put in here.
Eliza: Mm-hmm
Jim: Questions that you can answer. But we often feel uncomfortable in the Christian community talking about things that sound like they’re outside of the Christian faith.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Like trauma-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … induced.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, that’s a psychological situation.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we don’t really wanna bring psychology into this, but again, our… My position is these are things that are complementary. The, the scripture informs us about trauma.
Eliza: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Jim: I mean, there’s plenty of trauma in the scripture.
Eliza: Like, let’s just start with Genesis. Right (laughing)?
Jim: Right on through the revelation.
Eliza: There’s murder, right. (laughs)
Jim: But the point of that is don’t let worldly observations taint us from God’s ability to use those tools that He created. He created the brain, emotions, body, soul, spirit. This is His invention.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And human beings are gonna see patterns that we start to collect and look at and identify and bring healing and help to hopefully. But as Christians, we need to be comfortable that, “Hey, these tools are here. God’s created them. We can identify ’em and use them as well for His kingdom.”
Eliza: Yes.
Jim: And to draw people in. So, don’t be afraid of those terms and things.
Eliza: So, good.
Jim: But in that context, uh, how would you define trauma?
Eliza: Hmm.
Jim: Let’s start with that big question.
Eliza: Yeah, no, that’s a good one. So, essentially, it’s an emotional, uh, response to a terrible event. But that’s too simplistic in a lot of ways. Uh, but that is what it is. That’s what we’re talking about. And again, when we talk about trauma, we’re talking in about an event. And this is from the, uh, SAMHSA, which is a well-known organization that, that deals a lot with mental health and addiction. And they say that it is an event or a series of an events that is considered life-threatening to a person. Now, when I say life-threatening, I don’t necessarily think “I’m going to die.” But sometimes, yes. It also could mean something very precious to me is being threatened.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And so, it could be that my voice, my ability to make a decision in this, is being threatened. And so, it’s sort of like my ability to live my life is being threatened or somebody else that I love. ‘Cause a lot of times you see this, sadly, in abuse, the abusers will hurt people that, that the person that they’re abusing loves, whether that’s a pet or a child or a family member. And so, when you see somebody else whose life is threatened, that can also be it. But it has, the key is it’s… That it has lasting adverse effects on you. And this is what the world says. So, just listen to this. They say it has lasting adverse effects on us physically, emotionally, socially, and spiritually. So, the secular world, the clinical world, is saying it has spiritual impact.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: In fact, Judith Herman, who wrote really kind of a seminal work on trauma, trauma and recovery, she’s really given us a lot of, of understanding in the clinical world on it. But she says… Essentially, these are my words, but she says, “Trauma makes us theologians.” She says, “It calls into question those core foundational beliefs of our faith.” That’s my paraphrase of what she says, but she’s really kind of saying there that it’s gonna make you a theologian. That’s whether you’re identifying as a Christian or not, you’re going to have these existential questions about “Why is this happening?” And so, doesn’t that set the church up to be an excellent place to speak into these things? Rather than being afraid of them and saying-
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: … “We can’t talk about that.”
Jim: I mean, this is what we should be about.
Eliza: We should be talking about it.
Jim: It’s noticing people’s pain.
Eliza: Yes.
Jim: And being able to deliver a gospel centric-
Eliza: 100%.
Jim: … answer or input.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we may not always have the answer.
Eliza: I like that answer-
Jim: As you said, last time.
Eliza: … answer or input.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: It may not always be an answer, it might just be input-
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: … that’s so good.
Jim: In that way. Let me ask you this, because gradation-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … of trauma.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I’m sure we all have an internal perspective on that.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So, you, you know, you mentioned last time that what one person’s response to a very similar circumstance will be different with another person.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Resiliency is what-
Eliza: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Jim: … screams at me when you talk about that. So, a person that has greater resiliency may go through a traumatic event, “But you know what, this happens in life, and I’m gonna get up tomorrow. I’m gonna keep moving forward.” Pretty healthy.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, they might be, uh, one might say not looking deep enough.
Eliza: Maybe (laughs).
Jim: So, that, you know, but it’s generally pretty healthy to be able to-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … get up and go. I tend to be more like that, but another person, a more sensitive person, is what I have found. Somebody who’s emotionally sensitive-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … can have that same event, and it’s catastrophic.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: You know, “I can’t just keep moving forward.” So, we kind of create this gradation-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … of trauma. How do we manage that? Like what…
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: When serious trauma versus, you know, that’s part of life.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: And you’re gonna… And teenagers.
Eliza: Oh, wow.
Jim: And maybe even some 20-somethings.
Eliza: That’s a better conversation, right? (laughs) Yeah.
Jim: Are gonna be experiencing this all time. Did anybody have ever have pimples on their face? That was like the end of the world. Right? “I can’t go to school today, look at all these zits.” (laughing) But I mean, not to, you know, be too humorous with that, but that is true.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That’s like trauma central as a 15-year-old.
Eliza: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think… So, let me go back to something that we talked about last time, where I talked about… I actually said there were four things: overwhelm, powerlessness, the alone, but I didn’t give you the fourth one.
Jim: Hmm.
Eliza: And the fourth one actually applies to what you’re talking about now. And I share this cautiously. And so, I share this thinking, you know, let, let’s just hold this as a, a side thing, but you’re touching on it. And that last one is propensity. That there are some people who have more propensity towards trauma. And I think we actually have to be aware of that. I don’t always share that with people, because then they can think, “Well, if I went through this, I’m probably gonna have trauma next time I go through something.” And that’s not true. But there is some truth. And we see that through, uh, different statistics and so forth, that if you’ve gone through something pretty catastrophic and then you go through another thing, the chances of you being traumatized is greater if you haven’t had a safe place to process it. If you haven’t had the people, the time, the, the space that you need to process it. And so, we see this a lot with what’s called complex trauma where… And this is mostly in children where something happened over and over and over again, that if you took it one of those things separately, it would not traumatize them, but it’s every day repeatedly being told, “You’re not loved, you’re not cared for, you’re not important.” Over and over and over, then it becomes traumatizing to them. And so, it’s important to understand that the one time where maybe somebody says at school like, “Oh, you look stupid with that pimple on your face or whatever, you look weird (laughs).” That’s probably gonna be a bad day, but it’s not gonna be traumatizing. But if every day that child goes to school, and somebody is telling them over and over-
Jim: Oh, yeah.
Eliza: … and over again, then it becomes more traumatizing.
Jim: You know, in that regard. It’s interesting. I hadn’t thought of that, but you think of the dad and I… Again, I’ll be stereotypical, and someone’s gonna say, “It’s not always dads that do that.” I get that. I’m just trying to say, this is typically Dad’s the one that says, “I’m gonna toughen up my kid-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … by saying things like, ‘get up, come on.'”
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: “That’s not a wound. That’s… You don’t even touch it.”
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: “Don’t cry.” I mean, you’re hearing it.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, and I think that may swing in the other direction too, where a mom is helping a daughter-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … she thinks by being critical.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that is not helpful.
Eliza: No.
Jim: I mean, uh, you’ve got to understand A, where’s that coming from in you-
Eliza: Right.
Jim: … to want to do that?
Eliza: Right.
Jim: “I’m gonna toughen my kid up by demoralizing him-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and demeaning him.” As if that’s the formula to lifting someone up (laughs).
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That’s the first false premise. But then what are better things to do in a parenting context that you want to say-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … “You know, hon, I feel that, I see that, I understand that I had the same thing happen to me when I was a freshman.” I mean, those are the things…
Eliza: You’re totally answering it. Absolutely. Yes.
Jim: But, but that’s the point, right?
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: Have empathy.
Eliza: Empathy. Empathy and compassion. I think there’s a lot of times, as parents, we can feel overwhelmed with what our kids think are traumatizing or traumatic. And, um, it can be easy to not respond very compassionately.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: Now, I will say, there’s a time to be able to say like, “This is hard because it’s hard and I’ll walk with you through the hard, but I’m… It’s not gonna get easy. It’s gonna be hard. And that’s part of life.” But I do think it’s that balance. And really, what we’re looking at is, is this situation really attacking the person. Like, the personhood is so fragile in those early years.
Jim: Identity, all of it.
Eliza: Oh. So huge. And so, we always wanna be pointing them towards that they have an identity that’s offered to them in Jesus.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And for them to be able to build that identity on that, because it’s unshakable.
Jim: You had a story in the book about someone you called Jake, who was a college student-
Eliza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jim: … who… You kind of lived this.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: So, I think this is a good spot to bring his experience up. What happened to Jake?
Eliza: Yeah. Well, Jake had a pretty, um… And again, not his real name.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: Kind of a composite of a couple of people, just so we say that out front (laughs). Um, but he had a pretty traumatic situation happen to him where he was sexually assaulted. And in that experience, he really withdrew. And I would say in that experience, uh, his parents were a key part of the, the healing process.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: But he began to learn that, first of all, we are not in a hurry to process this very big trauma. And that’s something that is so key that you can give somebody who has been traumatized, you can give them patience. “I’m not in a rush. You don’t have to be in a rush either.” Because think about a major traumatizing situation like that.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: It happened in an instant, really quick. There was no warning to that. Well, that’s going to feel very much like what’s gonna happen to me next through the rest of their life. And if you start talking to them about that trauma, they’re gonna feel that anxiety of, “Are you gonna rush me to into something that I’m not ready to do?”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And so, I think that’s a big key is just being able to say, “How do we patiently, compassionately walk with them and say, ‘I’m here with you in this to go at the pace that you need.'”
John: Mm-hmm. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Eliza Huie, and we’re covering some of the content in her terrific resource, Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care. And we’ve got copies of this and, of course, uh, other help for you at our website. And that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Eliza, let me be vulnerable here. An area, and I think it does demonstrate these two situations, and you can speak to it.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I think I’m learning from it. But my wife has talked on this broadcast with me very bravely about her two brothers who committed suicide.
Eliza: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Jim: And it brings tears to my eyes because for me, I did not want to sit there.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, we got, and at some point, I don’t know if it was three months after her second brother had committed suicide, I kinda said, “We gotta pick up ourselves and go, we can’t sit here.” And I remember she said to me, and this, this actually scared me, but she said, “I’m not like you. I have to sit here in this grief.”
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: And I went, “Whoa.” I don’t know if I could do that.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, and it touches me.
Eliza: Yes.
Jim: You could tell, but being an orphan kid-
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: … I learned, I don’t wanna sit there.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I don’t want to be in grief.
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: I mean, those are two examples of doing it well, it’s sitting in the grief-
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: … like Jean, and then my kind of e- escapism.
Eliza: Wow.
Jim: That I don’t wanna be there.
John: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: Well, you really nailed it, and I appreciate you being so vulnerable because as you were saying that, yes, that thought of… ‘Cause you’re, you’ve obviously done some work. You’ve done some work to be able to say, “I don’t wanna sit here in the grief.” That’s what’s going on when I’m saying, “Let’s move on, sweetie, let’s go forward.” You’re, you’re actually recognizing that, that’s that flee that kept you alive when you were five years old.
Jim: Right.
Eliza: It was important for you to do that at five. And we can thank God that He gave you the, the way that He designed us in that moment is, “Hey, you gotta survive, little guy. This is what you’re gonna do to survive.” But now, not being five anymore (laughs), you don’t have to run.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And you’ve got a wife there who’s saying, “I actually need you to be here with me in that.”
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: Wow. And, and the value of the two of you healing together.
Jim: Hmm.
Eliza: Ugh. That’s huge.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: That’s huge.
Jim: Yeah.
John: Eliza, there’s so much here. And, uh, wow. We have moments here in the studio where we just have to kind of pause.
Eliza: Yeah.
John: What really related though to this moment is the acronym PEACE.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
John: Which you offer as a great set of tools for all of us to kind of deal with either ourselves or somebody else that we know, and we want to help them walk through some of this.
Eliza: Yeah. Yeah. So, just like I have the acronym TRAUMA to help us understand trauma, we wanna understand peace as well, because that is what we wanna hold out to people. We wanna hold out peace. That’s not just peace for the sake of peace, but peace that is rooted in the Prince of Peace. The one who said, “I’ve come that you would have life and that you would have it abundantly.”
John: Hmm.
Eliza: That He gives peace, that surpasses all understanding. And so, the first thing that, that I encourage people is to think about what does it look like for us to be patient? To be patient with the person who’s struggling? And we’ve talked about that already on this episode here today. And just how we don’t wanna rush people.
John: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And you even just, that reminded me when you, you shared what you just shared.
John: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: We want to be willing to say, “I’m, I’m gonna be okay if I sit here with you in this, not because I want to, but because you are with me. And we’re looking not to the circumstance. We’re looking beyond the circumstance to the one who gives us hope.” I love Lamentations 3, where it says, “This, I call to mind and therefore I have hope. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is your faithfulness.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: But let’s not forget what that verse starts with. “This I call to mind.” We actually have to call to mind the things that are truly going to give us peace, ’cause a lot of things just come to mind. In fact, the antiverse to that would be, uh, “This I let fill my mind, and therefore I’m in despair.” Right? (laughs) You know, “All the things that are around me are falling apart.” Or whatever, however that’s gonna look.
John: Yeah.
Eliza: But we need to call that, those truths to mind and have that peace infused into our spirit that the E stands for education. And this is really helpful. And we, we even, even just sharing your story, being able to know that that was okay for that five-year-old to fight for survival, that was not just okay, that was courageous for that five-year-old to, to fight for survival. And look where you are today. God used that story to have you right here today, which is amazing. So, we wanna educate people and say, “There was nothing wrong with you running when you were five, or there was nothing wrong with you feeling like you couldn’t connect with relationships because of all these, these broken trust relationships that you’ve had, or this catastrophic event that you went through. It’s not sinful to be distrusting when you’ve had broken trust and let them know that it’s part of a response that kept you alive.” Now, we don’t wanna stay there because otherwise you’ll just run every time something gets uncomfortable.
Jim: Right.
Eliza: But so, you educate them and say, “This is what was a natural response based on what your circumstance provided for you.” And then the next one is… So, PEACE, P-E-A is we want to acknowledge the work that they are doing, even if the work is right there, first time you just told me your story. Wow, that had to be so courageous, and thank you for trusting me with that, that I’m guessing that had to be hard, and just acknowledge, acknowledge the work that they have done. If you’ve seen them working through, trying to trust in small ways, or trying to move towards healthier responses to those triggers. Acknowledge that. And then the, the C is one that I just feel very strongly about. And you guys embrace that so well here at Focus. Counseling. We need other people to help us. I, uh, I have a, an injured elbow that I actually talk about in the book, and I still work through physical therapy. And recently I was in an, an appointment and he was moving my arm in ways that it wouldn’t move on its own. And my body has been told enough times, “Don’t move it that far, it’s gonna hurt.” And so, my body’s trying to protect myself, just like in regular emotional trauma. It does the same thing. I’m trying to protect myself, but it was trying to protect it, but it was actually causing more harm because it wasn’t going to the full extension. And so, he was having to move my arm in ways that I couldn’t. And I said to him… He’s not a believer, but he got what I was saying. I said to him, “It’s interesting, isn’t it? That I need you to help me heal” And he’s like, “Huh. Yeah, actually, you do.” (laughing) And I said, “It’s very similar to the work that we do in counseling, that we need other people to help us heal.” I’m only gonna go so far in my story unless somebody’s willing to ask that other question or to say, “I’m here.”
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: “I’m gonna walk with you in this.” So, counseling’s a big one. You guys do that great here. There’s so many resources that Focus provides, and I’m so thankful for that.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: And then, of course, the last one would be the last E, encourage. Tell them what you see happening. Tell them the little changes, even if they’re teeny tiny. “You know what I noticed when I gave you a hug this time, you didn’t pull away. Like, sometimes you do.”
Jim: Yeah. Something that simple.
Eliza: That’s huge.
Jim: Yeah.
Eliza: I’m so grateful. So, encourage them. Encourage them that they’re doing the hard work.
Jim: A hard one in the book, and it’s gonna be right here at the end, which is pretty difficult. But you also had a, uh, client named Lucy. Again, I’m sure you’ve changed the name-
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … who endured pretty severe trauma. Describe what happened with her, what the post trauma left her, and how she began to work through those issues.
Eliza: Yeah. Um, the thing about Lucy is when we have situations that are really difficult, and we’ve talked about some even on this suicide, but oftentimes when, when I see the most difficult are ones that have like sexual abuse or sexual assault. Uh, there is so much that happens to a person physiologically in those situations. We’ve talked about before that we have to address the body because the body was with us. And I often will say, “You have to start where the wound began.” And with sexual assault or things along those lines, you really do have to recognize that that body is going to be still remembering what happened to them. And I think the thing that is… We’ve already mentioned this, but I, I think it’s worth saying again, are we willing to ask the questions and being patient with the responses and being able to say, “Okay. I’m okay with whatever is said or not said in this conversation.” In a way that sets the tone, sets the pace. Because especially when we think about, which is often a common trauma, is things like rape and so forth. When we have situations like that, there was no agency. And I will say in churches, sometimes we can actually say, “This is the care we have available for your churches-
John: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: … or even ministries. This is the care we have for you. You have to kind of go through this process.” But I think we have to be a lot more flexible when we have more severe traumas, in being able to understand that some people are not gonna be ready for that. So, let them question, we’ve talked about that before, let them have those questions about God, about themselves, and be able to be there to just absorb those things and walk with them through it.
Jim: Yeah. Good advice. And again, more of that story’s in the book, and people can get that. I think right at the end here, the last question is just how, again, your admonishment, your Christian admonishment to church-going believers.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: Um, to help those around you to be able to identify pain.
Eliza: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And kind of what Jesus did, right?
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: He went about helping people, asking questions, and then healing and taking care of, and giving spiritual insight into everyday life. Right? Everyday trauma.
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: Um, what advice at the end here would you have for the-
Eliza: Hmm, yeah.
Jim: … the hopefully 2 million or so Christian listeners and viewers (laughs)?
Eliza: Yeah.
Jim: What do you say to them?
Eliza: Well, one of the things that I hold out to people, which is the truth that I hold to in all situations, but specifically with trauma. Trauma can feel so identifying. It can feel like “This is always gonna be my life.” or “This is always gonna be my loved one’s life.” They’re always going to be shaped by their circumstance. And that is not what the Bible teaches. And so, we wanna hold onto the fact that trauma does not get the last word. Trauma is not more powerful than our God, who raised our Savior from the dead. If He can do that, He can overcome this circumstance. Now, I will tell you, and I think it’s fair to say that we read in Revelations that says that “He will wipe away every tear.” Well, where is that? That’s actually in heaven when we see that He wipes away every tear. So, I, I call them last day tears. There are some tears that do last this lifetime. That doesn’t mean they’re as strong as they were at the beginning, but when I look back on it, I still will say when I much like the story that you so graciously shared today, it’s still brings tears to my eyes.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Eliza: Even though we’ve walked through a lot of healing. But I know that God will wipe away every tear, and then the tears will not be tears of pain or sorrow or regret or hurt. Those tears will be tears of joy because we will see Him and we will be like Him, fully redeemed, fully healed, fully glorified. So, trauma does not get the last word for your story or your loved one’s story.
Jim: That is so well said. Eliza, thanks for being with us. And what a great book. Trauma Aware: A Christian’s Guide to Providing Help and Care. Who, who (laughs) shouldn’t get a copy of this?
John: Yeah.
Jim: Just put your hand up, and we won’t send it to you. (laughing) Um, but if you are touched by this, if you are saying, “Yes, I need to better understand this.” Get a hold of us. And, uh, if you can make a gift of any amount, like we often do monthly or one-time gift, we’ll send the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. We are a Christian ministry (laughs), so if you can’t afford that, call us, get ahold of us, we’ll send it to you free. And we’ll just hope that others will cover the cost of that.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Uh, it’s really our heart to make sure you’re equipped to move forward in your journey, in your walk with the Lord to become stronger, healthier, better, and uh, in yourself. And then also being able to help those around you.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, get a hold of this book, Trauma Aware. Uh, we can tell you more about connecting with one of our counselors and scheduling a callback so they can have a over-the-phone consultation with you. Uh, there’s a lot of help for you when you call 800 the letter A and the word FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Well, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
