Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

David Dunham: There can be that tendency, like, “If I disclose this to someone, how does that make our family look?” And so, you know, there comes that point where my love for this person is great, and I want to help them, but I also have some of those ow- my own insecurities that color how I respond to the situation. And so that can keep us from asking for help.

John Fuller: Well, that’s Pastor David Dunham, describing a dilemma that many caregivers face when dealing with a spouse or a family member who suffers from an eating disorder. We’re gonna hear more from David and his wife, Krista, on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, we had a powerful conversation last time with David and Krista about this destructive problem that was not only threatening their marriage, but Krista’s life as well, and as we heard last time, there was no easy fix. This issue is something the Dunham’s were unprepared for, and everything they tried seemed to make matters worse. But thankfully, God was right there with this young couple in their struggle, and they kept clinging to Him for help. And as we’ll hear today, David and Krista did get the help they needed, and the healing they were seeking, from counseling and a community of believers who supported them. And, of course, the Lord. Uh, and let me say this, if you or someone you know is struggling with an eating disorder, we want to help you any way we can. Contact us here at Focus on the Family. We have counselors and other resources for you. Get the help you need right away, rather than putting yourself and your family at greater risk.

John: Yeah, it’s important that you reach out today. Our number is 800-232-6459. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or find help at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: And if you missed the program last time, we can send an audio copy to you, or we have the previous episodes on YouTube, or, best of all, you can get our Focus on the Family app and access, uh, this great content whenever you’d like.

John: Right. And, uh, we mentioned last time that David and Krista have written a book about their journey. The title is Table for Two: Biblical Counsel for Eating Disorders. And with part two of our conversation, here’s Jim on today’s episode of Focus on the Family.

Jim: A friend, I think, if I remember the story correctly, challenged you to think of the eating disorder as an idol. This is so interesting, ’cause just last night, Troy and I were reading Luke, and I was trying to ask, even for myself, “What are modern idols today?” You know, back then, it was wooden statues and… Y- You know? The modern civilization today, oh, how could they do that?

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But there are still idols.

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: And to think of your eating disorder as an idol… H- How did that hit you, and did you think it was accurate?

Krista: Hmm.

David: Hmm.

Krista Dunham: Yeah, that was a complete turning point for me, because I really respected this person. Um, she was just a really close friend of the family and had always looked out for me. Um, we always had our differences. In fact, we used to kind of actually physically fight when we were children, but she just stepped in and said, “I think that you need to think of it this way.” Um, and I was really willing to hear her because she was really invested in my life, and I think that makes a big difference too. To get advice from someone who’s not really in there with you is very unhelpful, but to have someone step in, who knows you very well, that made all the difference in the world. And, and I listened to her and it, and it was helpful.

Jim: Yeah, and it seems like… So, there’s this tether that you were able to stay connected to. Probably, David was a big help in that regard, and others that were involved at this point. But you had to come to that realization, and it felt like there were two parts to this. So, maybe you can address that for those listening that are going, “Oh, my goodness, this might be me.” This might be an awareness moment for people who are going, “Wow, she’s describing where I’m at.” That tether, I would say, is, one, knowing that God was there, but maybe realizing you didn’t know Him as well as you thought you knew Him. And then, two, what did you do to get the recovery that… Obviously, today, you’re in a great place, and people are gonna be desperate to hear those two components. Who are believers, but they do have an eating disorder.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, how did you draw closer to the Lord? And then second, the practical help that really saved you?

David: Mm-hmm.

Krista: I think a big thing was just to realize that I didn’t, I didn’t know God as well as I said I did, like you had said.

Jim: So, would you say more, like, a- a head knowledge versus a heart knowledge?

Krista: Yeah, definitely. Um, so I, I definitely was a Christian. I definitely understood the gospel. I definitely wanted to follow God, but it just felt, like, that didn’t really connect into my life. And so I think just searching for that, to say, “Okay, this is a big problem, and I know that God is a big God and can help to remedy this.” And so I kind of wanted my faith to still be in it, but I also knew there was, um, a mental struggle aspect of it. And so some of what was helpful to me was just combining what I knew about the Bible, about God, and what these books were saying about an eating disorder.

Jim: You know, this is a beautiful illustration of how two things work well together. The supremacy of our reliance and faith in Christ is bedrock.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s where it starts. But then to get help, professional help, is good. And, you know… Again, so many, in the Christian faith, we separate those two, and we don’t do the hard work of seeing a therapist. Hopefully, Christian therapists so that worldview is connected and that person can help in that way. It’s wonderful that both you and David have taken this on to help others. But, you know, often, there is that, um, complaint, that we’re trying to merge psychology and the scripture. Well, God is the God of psychology. (laughs)

David: Yes.

Jim: I mean, not everything in psychology is God edifying, but God created us, and the things that entrap us. Uh, certainly the study of the brain can illuminate for us as Christians. So, I just like that combination there, where you started with the Lord and drawing closer to Him, His attributes, and then also got long-term-

David: Yeah.

Jim: … help, right?

Krista: Yeah. That’s how we kind of headed into the direction of finding a biblical counselor, um, that really ended up helping me a lot. But like you said, it’s… There’s just that whole need for understanding how the mind works that we can definitely take from these people in psychology that are doing a lot of studies on that and say, “Okay, what does the Bible say about this,” and, “What can we use within that worldview,” and, “What should we not listen to?”

Jim: Let me ask you, just so people have a perspective. That process of being with a- an expert. I, I appreciate the fact that you sought out a biblical foundation in that expert, but was that a, a one-year, two-year, four-year, five-year process?

Krista: Um, well, it was kind of off and on because… I mean, just the nature of an eating disorder. Like we talked about, just that forward and backward.

Jim: Right.

Krista: You know, trying to move forward. Um, there would just come times where I was like, “I think I’m done. I don’t really want to be doing this anymore. I think things are better enough that I can function again,” and I just would kind of drop what I was doing. Um, and so some of that is why it took, really, 10 years to get better.

David: Hmm.

Krista: And it wasn’t just one single helper, uh, one single counselor. It was just a multitude of them kind of helping me along.

Jim: Yeah. And I appreciate that, because that… You know, it’s a long process.

David: Mm-hmm.

Krista: It is.

Jim: That’s the point. It doesn’t always go that way, but the reality is: often, it’s gonna be a long process and, uh, to overcome this. And I, again, applaud your courage, both of you, in doing that. David, I want to capture a couple things that, that you mentioned in the book. One was this idea that it’s hard for someone who is in this place, suffering from an eating disorder, to get the help they need. I think that’s one reason that first statistic I opened up with, that someone dies from an eating disorder every 52 minutes. I mean, that’s a wake-up call.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s too frequent-

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … is the bottom line. You described something, David, called the spectrum of readiness.

David: Yeah.

Jim: What is that and how do we apply it?

David: Yeah, so I think it’s important to know, the individual suffering with the eating disorder has to decide when they’re ready to get help. Um, and until they’re ready, you can beg and plead and cajole. And, and you know, one of my worst tactics was threaten. Um, you know, I threatened divorce and I… You know, all kinds of things that were just terrible, and unhelpful to Krista, and selfish. And, uh… But you could do all those things, and they might have a short-term impact, but they won’t result in long term change.

Jim: Right.

David: And so each person has to decide where they’re at. And so in the book, you know, we, we kind of outline a couple of categories for people when they’re, they’re trying to evaluate how ready they are to change. And so it, it starts with just denial, and that’s where almost all people struggling with anything start, right?

Jim: Mm-hmm.

David: “I’m not at all prepared, interested. I don’t see the problem. You’re overdramatizing it. It’s not that bad.”

Jim: It’s that fog I was talking about.

David: Yes, yeah.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

David: And then, it really goes to just that category of considering, like, “I’m, I’m open to hearing more about this. I’m, I’m listening. Uh, I’m not quite sure I’m ready to do anything about it, but I’m, I’m willing to, to hear you on it.” Uh, and then there’s that investigating, where I’m really, I’m really trying to understand what change requires of me. Now, I might see that, yeah, it’s possible that I have a problem, but I’m, I’m worried that change is gonna be too hard, and so I wanna understand more about what change requires of me. And then seeking is, I’m now seeking guidance and help to make those changes, and then lastly is readiness. And, and I think for people who are helpers, one of the things that’s important is people can go back and forth on that spectrum. They can start at, you know, “I’m ready to change today,” and they can be all the way at denial tomorrow. And so it’s not that you get to a place and that’s where you stay. You keep evaluating. And I think as a helper, you just take the person where they’re at. “Oh, you’re at seeking. Let’s talk about that. Let’s, let’s see what we can do to keep you moving forward.”

John: Uh, Krista, for those around you and close to you, what would they have seen as kind of a, a flag? A warning that something’s amiss in your eating patterns and your behaviors? And then, did people ask you about things, and that’s why you lost friends? ‘Cause they were pressing into an area that you didn’t want to talk about?

Krista: Um, yeah. At first, when I was at college, it was a lot of skipping meals. Um, and I would make excuses for it, like, “I have to study for a test.” And that seemed pretty normal, because a lot of people would do that, but they’d eat in their room or whatever, and I wasn’t doing that. Um, and yeah, there was some of that, just that pressing into me, and I didn’t want them to see it. And it was more of me, yeah, pulling away from them and not them giving up on me. It was just, I wanted to be left alone in order to do what I wanted to do. And, um, and thankfully, there were people who just kept coming around, but they were seeing things like that. Just skipping meals. Um, and what my family was seeing was, you know, I’d have just my little quirks about what I was eating. Um, I, I recall one time at a family dinner, I just had a complete meltdown over not having the kind of salad dressing that I needed. And to them, it was just, um, kind of a weird behavior, but once all the pieces were put together, there was more there. But just those, um… People who have eating disorders a lot of time have those kind of food rules, and when they’re broken, you can see when they just kind of fall apart. And when they’re trying to hold that together with control, then it… Yeah, it’s disconcerting for them.

Jim: David, let me ask you, you know, so often in life we mean well, but we say not-so-smart things. You, you kind of self-confess that you’re the prince of this. (laughs)

David: (laughs)

Jim: But I think many men would fit that. Uh, women tend to be more in tune with that sensitivity. But we’re trying-

David: Yeah.

Jim: … and we say things that we shouldn’t say. What was… What did you learn was least helpful for Krista, and how do you counsel, particularly husbands, but you know, the help givers around that person?

David: Yeah. You know, the… I don’t know that there was a thing, a specific thing that I said that was the most unhelpful. It was just the general attitude. Um, a lot of my concern tended to center around how her behaviors were affecting us, me. Uh, and so, you know, some unhelpful things that, you know, I would emphasize. You know, “Well, we’re not able to go out with friends because, you know, this is always a problem,” or, you know, “We have to eat only certain, you know, places when we eat out,” or, “We’re not, uh, you know, only eat…” And so I would, I would kind of bring those things up and use them in ways that made her feel guilty, which was really unhelpful. You know, I think in general, you know, a verse that’s been really helpful to me has been Proverbs 18:13, which says, uh, “He who speaks before he listens is a fool.” And the most important thing in terms of helping anybody, but especially with eating disorders, is really listening. Giving space for Krista to express what she was anxious about, upset about. Um, where she was at in her own sort of mental framework with the issue. Uh, not trying to impose. You know, “You need to be here, you need to be thinking this,” but just giving her space to share and talk, and sort through things, and know that in sharing and sorting those thr- through those things with me, I was still gonna be there. And I was still gonna be loving her, and I was still gonna be plodding along with her. So, I think that concept of listening to understand instead of listening to respond. Listening to understand, and then interacting with her where she was and what she was dealing with. That’s what I needed to do and ended.

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests today are David and Krista Dunham, describing the impact that Krista’s eating disorder had on their relationship, and they’ve captured their story in a book called Table for Two: Biblical Counseling for Eating Disorders. We have copies of that book available at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or you can call us for details. 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. And now, the conclusion of our conversation with the Dunhams on today’s Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Krista, I’m a little uncomfortable with this next question, ’cause it is so personal. Um, but the impact of your eating disorder affected your pregnancies and did affect your children.

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, it, you know… Ah. A, the guilt of that. I mean, it gets me teary-eyed thinking about it. Tell us what happened and what the impact was.

Krista: Yeah, so we decided, um, a couple years into our marriage, that we wanted to have kids, and it was just something we wanted to start with right away, but I knew where I was at with my eating disorder. And so I decided, um, very wrongfully to do this, um, to go ahead and go to a fertility specialist, um, because I wasn’t ovulating. I wasn’t, anything that I needed to do to be pregnant.

Jim: Ah.

Krista: And so I didn’t really share with them my whole backstory, because at the time, I really did have myself convinced I was okay. Um, and I didn’t want that to affect the whole part of my life that we were moving into. I just wanted to have a family and keep going. Um, and so I went on fertility medications, and I’ve heard from other people that it’s actually somewhat common for people to do that because that desire for children, um, kind of trumps where you think your body is at. And then, you just-

Jim: Yeah, and you’re convincing yourself you’re healthy.

Krista: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: Yeah, I get it.

Krista: Yeah. And so, um, yeah, I ended up getting pregnant, um, on fertility medication. And, um, we found out when our daughter was born that she had a mild form of spina bifida that’s, um, just… It’s called tethered cord syndrome. And so she, um, had to have surgery when she was a little over-

David: Two.

Krista: … two, or she was about two. Um, and that condition is really caused by the lack of nutrition of the mother, sometimes. That there are certain vitamins that were missing in my diet, or there were a lot of them missing. And, and so it was hard for me just dealing with that guilt. That it could have possibly been my fault, because I knew it didn’t have to be, but there was just something in my mind that, “If you would’ve eaten better, if you would’ve taken care of yourself, this wouldn’t have happened,” and that-

Jim: Let me-

Krista: … was really hard for me to do.

Jim: Yeah, let me ask you, I mean, that, that sounds like a hill to climb.

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: To find that peace, and I guess, in many ways, the forgiveness.

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, that seems pretty steep, but you got there.

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: H- How did you do that?

Krista: Um, I think it definitely took a lot of time. I think it wasn’t even until she was much older and passed the surgery, um, to really think that I could be forgiven for that. And I think it wasn’t so much of forgiving of myself, but just that I knew that I was forgiven in Christ because of what He did for me. You know, that part of my life was covered and I… Like, it was something I could move on from because I wasn’t holding onto it anymore. I had given it over to, to God. And so, um… It was just a slow process for me. It didn’t happen right away. It was just something that happened over time.

Jim: How old is your daughter now?

David: She’s 16. But I, I, you know, I know you, you had to keep, um, telling yourself the gospel and practicing believing it again and again, um, as you were dealing with that.

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: Well, I… Yeah.

Krista: It wasn’t just a one-time thing. It was… Yeah, I’d come back to it, and even sometimes he would have to remind me of, “Okay, this isn’t something that needs to be the center of your life.” Like, “You need to focus on Christ.” And so it was a real battle for me, and I can look back on it now and know that was just another big chunk of that eating disorder problem that I had to overcome.

Jim: Did you ever… Um, I’m thinking of these two mountains in front of you. One is the eating disorder. You’re getting that in a better place, then your daughter and… You know, that is y- yet another mountain of forgiveness you have to climb and find that. Did you ever have a, an issue with the Lord? Like, “Why? Why did you allow…” This is always the question, right?

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “Why did you allow my daughter to be impacted by this? What benefit is that?”

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: And that’s a raw question, but did you wrestle with that?

Krista: Yeah, I definitely did, and I have wrestled with it about my eating disorder as well. Just, “Why did this have to happen? It seems kind of senseless.” Um, the same with my daughter. “Why did this have to happen?” But, um, I’ve been able to help a lot of people with, who struggle with an eating disorder, because I’ve been there and I know. Um, and as well, we met people along the way of, um, of our daughter’s just surgery, and the recovery from that, and just… And my whole family just surrounded us in prayer, just seeing them grow from the difficulty that she had. Um, I can go back to that, and that kind of comforts me and knows, like, that God had something in store for all of that.

Jim: Wow. I’d say your faith has really grown.

Krista: Yes, very much.

Jim: I mean, that’s what I’m hearing over everything.

Krista: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jim: And what a beautiful way to go.

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, one thing that’s striking me is the scripture 34:18. Psalms 34:18, where it says, “God is close to the broken heart and saves those crushed in spirit.”

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It’s an interesting invitation to go where you don’t want to go.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But there’s something spiritually dynamic-

David: Yeah.

Jim: … that happens in the valley.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, so many sayings like, “Don’t trust people that don’t limp.”

Krista: Mm-hmm.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Right? Uh, if you only live on the mountaintops, you don’t really know who you are. It seems like, in that beautiful way, the Lord took you through this valley and taught you so much more about Himself.

David: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And you gotta go, “Thank you.”

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Even though it was hard, it was difficult.

David: Yeah.

Jim: But to get through the valley, and know the Lord more deeply, and know yourself more deeply. Wow! People can go a lifetime and not experience that.

Krista: Yeah, yeah. That was an amazing gift to me, and I can be thankful for it now that I’m more beyond-

Jim: Right, it doesn’t feel like that in the valley.

Krista: Yeah, no, definitely not. And it’s a, it’s an amazing gift that I can be thankful for now. I would definitely not know the Lord like I know Him now because, um… And in the beginning, I didn’t… There was some of me that just wanted to resist that, and it was something God wanted to give to me and I was running away from it. He wanted to give me more of Himself and to know Him better. And so, like you said, just walking through that valley, He was with me. And I can see it now on the other side, that people want my help because I have gotten to the other side, and there are people who trust me to care for their problems because of that.

Jim: Well, it’s almost like God says, “From the ashes.”

Krista: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Right?

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: And He creates something beautiful from the ashes.

Krista: Mm-hmm.

David: It, it makes me think of, uh, Romans 5, 3 through 5, where Paul says, “We rejoice in suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not disappoint us, because the love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit whom we’ve been given.” And that idea that suffering could somehow lead to hope that we don’t yet experience and know, that’s deeply profound and so important to hold onto when it feels like it’s slipping away.

Jim: Yeah. Krista, let’s end here. Uh, that “aha” moment where you felt healed, was it, like, a light switch that you flipped, or was it a dimmer switch that was sliding, and you woke up one day and said, “I think I’m in the better place now.”

Krista: It was definitely a dimmer switch. And, um, I don’t think I really have a moment in my mind where I’m like, “Oh, this is definitely-

Jim: The day.

Krista: … over.” Yeah, it… I just discovered, I think, that I was starting to use more of a language of, you know, victory and freedom, and I think it was a kind of a shock to myself to hear myself saying those things, of… And just noticing them in my life. I still have moments where I look back and… We have a chili cook-off at our church-

Jim: (laughs)

Krista: … and they always need judges. And one year, I volunteered to be a judge, and I just sat there and I looked around and I was like, “I never would’ve been able to do this a few years ago.”

Jim: Wow.

Krista: And I was like, “Oh, this is…” You know, “I can see freedom in this.”

Jim: Yeah.

Krista: “I can see recovery in this.” And it was a really neat moment for me.

Jim: The thing I like about that, it also adds a little bit of God’s humor to the story. (laughs)

Krista: Yeah, yes.

Jim: You know, “You won’t believe what I’m gonna have you do.” (laughs)

Krista: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: “You’re gonna be the judge in a chili cook-off.” I mean, that’s so funny-

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: … in a, in a fun way.

David: Yeah.

Krista: Yeah.

Jim: Listen, uh, this cannot exemplify any better what our mission is. And again, I’m so grateful for the courage of Krista and David coming in and talking about, you know, this journey of more than 10 years, but, you know, a lifetime in the beginning for Krista. And if you’re in that spot, we want to help you. This is what I mean by that example. We’re here for you. Uh, we’ve been at this 45 years, over 45 years, and, uh, I don’t think you’re gonna shock us, uh, where you’re at. So, if you don’t have somebody nearby, a pastor, a family member that you can talk with yet, call us. Uh, it provides that distance, a little bit of safety, but we can also help point you in the right direction. And, uh, i- maybe you’re not in that space, but you want to be more aware so that you can help others. Family members, people in your church. Get this resource, and we can get it into your hands. It works really well. Uh, if you buy it from a large corporate group (laughs), all that money goes right back into shareholders profit, but when you… Uh, get the resource from us for a gift of any amount. Uh, if you can’t afford it, we’ll send it to you free. How about that deal? We’re gonna trust others will take care of that. But if you need it, we’ll get it in your hands. If you can make a gift, that’s great. It all goes back into helping other families-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … not paying shareholders, so help us do the ministry and get a great resource.

John: Yeah. The starting number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, and then, uh, we’ve got all the details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And Jim, uh, it’s really important for people to know when they call us, we want to point them in the direction of a specialized counselor to deal with this. And we have a trusted referral, a network of people that we can point you to, so, uh, make that call today and get connected to somebody. And then, as Jim said, get the book. Uh, if someone in your life is struggling with this, you need to know this great story and these scriptures, uh, so contact us today.

Jim: David and Krista, thank you again so much. My heart is filled with gratitude, really, that you were able to come and share this powerful story of recovery. Thank you.

David: Thank you.

Krista: Yeah. Yeah, thank you so much.

John: And thank you for joining us as well today. We hope you have a great weekend with your family, and your church family as well, and join us on Monday for a powerful reminder that getting revenge is never good for you.

Phil Waldrep: Can I tell you something this morning? You can try all you want to get even and get revenge, and even if you succeed, you won’t be happy, because you’ll still be in bondage.