Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Preview:

Nancy Rue: You just take back the power to be yourself. Isn’t that what turning the other cheek is? It’s not, “Okay, well, go ahead and bully me some more.” It’s, “You hit me once? Go ahead with your thing, but you’re not getting to me with this. I’ve got the power to be who I am.”

End of Preview

John Fuller: That’s former teacher and author Nancy Rue on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: Uh, John, right out of the gate here I wanna thank teachers for the job they do. We know it’s a tough job, but we’re grateful for everything. Teachers meant the world to me.

John: Mm.

Jim: I mean, so many teachers poured into my life, especially as a troubled kid without a mom and dad. Uh, they really helped shape so much of my character. Awesome. Our guest today has been there as a teacher and you’re going to hear some of her gripping stories, and I think a lot of us have dealt with those bullies that she’ll talk about. I had a couple in my elementary school years.

John: Mm.

Jim: I think back to third grade, remember that? You remember that? (laughs)

John: Well, I d- I remember mine, not yours.

Jim: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: This kid, for whatever reason, he wanted to beat me up.

John: Ugh.

Jim: I, I just was a target of opportunity, I guess.

John: Mm.

Jim: And I was faster than him so he never really had the chance to catch me.

John: You could out run him.

Jim: (laughs) Yeah.

John: Well, there you go.

Jim: He probably could catch me now, but who knows?

John: Good strategy.

Jim: But I remember my sister caught wind of this and so she decided to stick up for me. She was probably 14 and I was whatever, nine.

John: Hmm.

Jim: And I remember running down Artesia Boulevard in Compton, where we lived for that, uh, short period, and she jumped out from behind this bush and decked that kid. (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: Stood over him and said, “Don’t bother my brother anymore.” And he didn’t.

John: (laughs)

Jim: Uh, the problem I had is going to school and explaining why my sister had to stick up for me.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But he was bigger and my sister was more his size.

John: Yeah.

Jim: So I feel okay about it. (laughs)

John: Well, going back, I mean, we’re, we’re having some fun with it, but that can be pretty traumatizing and pretty difficult.

Jim: Oh, you know, you live in fear until that is settled-

John: Mm.

Jim: … and thankfully my sister did get involved-

John: Yeah.

Jim: … and, uh, settled it. But he was a mean sixth grader-

John: It sounds like it.

Jim: … if anybody wants to know. But, uh, bullying can cut a lot deeper and have really significant scarring for the rest of your life-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and shape you in ways that are probably mostly unhealthy. Uh, today we want to equip you and your child so that you can stand up and put an end to bullying.

John: And Nancy Rue, as I said, is a former teacher. Uh, she had a lot of interactions with children so she has some great insight. She’s an author. She’s written a number of novels for tweens, teens, and adults, and, uh, we’re gonna pick up the conversation, uh, with Nancy sharing some very interesting statistics.

Jim: Hey, um, Nancy, I was taken aback by this stat that, uh, you provided us. 160,000 children on a given school day will stay home because they’re being bullied.

Nancy: Absolutely.

Jim: That is breathtaking.

Nancy: Well, to put it into perspective, that’s the population for Salem, Oregon.

Jim: Yeah, but-

Nancy: Or Springfield, Massachusetts.

Jim: That is sad.

Nancy: That’s a whole town’s worth of kids, right?

Jim: ‘Cause you only see it as a parent, as a friend of a child, uh, in onesies, in twosies.

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You don’t think of 160,000 children not going to school today-

Nancy: Right.

Jim: … because they’re being bullied and they fear the environment they’re in.

Nancy: And they’re having physical responses to that. Stomachaches, headaches, very real, you know, physiological issues because they’re so terrified of the way they’re gonna be treated in school.

Jim: Why, and I know you were a school teacher, that was a few years ago-

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … but why did bullying, um, cross your radar? Why have you picked up this cause and written about it, talked to teens and adolescents about it? Why is this something you care about?

Nancy: The most amazing, for lack of a better word, stunning story, um, I think is what really tuned me into it. I was a theater teacher so I tended to get the misfits.

Jim: (laughs) The fun people.

Nancy: And the kids who didn’t… The fun people, the crazies, um, who didn’t fit in any place else-

Jim: Huh.

Nancy: … and so I, I made it a point to provide an atmosphere, an environment, where they could be who they were and shine and have confidence. So my radar was out for other students who weren’t in the program who didn’t seem to have that niche, and there was one student whose name was Jake. I will never forget him. He wasn’t one of my students, but he was best friends with, with one of mine, um, and Ming was Jake’s only friend.

Jim: Huh.

Nancy: And I would watch Jake in the hall walking down the hall with a book in front of his face as if he were reading a book as he’s going from class to class so we didn’t have to interact. Um, one day I noticed the book was upside down, so he clearly was not reading it.

John: Mm.

Nancy: And I never asked, you know, just what was going on with Jake. I didn’t approach him and say, “So how you doing?”

Jim: Huh.

Nancy: His junior year he committed suicide.

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: And his friend Ming was absolutely devastated and we all sat down and talked about it, and even at the time I didn’t use the word bullying. I said, “What, what was the deal? W- what happened to Jake? Was he always just, I don’t know, strange?” Um, and it came out over the years that Jake was horribly bullied. When I asked my daughter, who was in that group, um, what happened with Jake, she said, “Oh, my goodness. They were terrible to him, especially the athletes and so forth.”

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: Called him gay, and, um, just-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … uh, made fun of him all the time. And then when he came out to his father that, yes, he was gay, his father kicked him out of the house.

Jim: At what age?

Nancy: Uh, he was a ju- 16 years old.

Jim: Yeah. Jeez.

Nancy: And he hanged himself. And to this day I still get this ache in my chest, not that I could have saved him, but what if-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … I had just said, “Jake, what can I do for ya? How’s it going?”

Jim: Mm.

Nancy: Invited him to just be part of the theater lunch group-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … and ever since then it’s just bothered me.

Jim: You know, e- looking at it at that high-level view, Nancy, um, what is it in us as human beings that if you act differently… I mean, you are a theater teacher.

Nancy: (laughs)

Jim: And you said it, and, uh, you know, that, um, area attracts a lot of different-thinking people.

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I had to do theater as a general ed in college and I thought (laughs) the same thing ’cause I was more on the athletic side.

Nancy: Mm.

Jim: And I’m thinking, “Wow, these people don’t really…” (laughs)

Nancy: What is wrong with these people? (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Jim: They don’t fit in with the rest of the world.

John: Mm.

Jim: But, but that is okay. God has made us in different ways.

Nancy: Absolutely.

Jim: And people think differently and act differently. Um, but why are we so… I- it’s so difficult for us to accept people who act differently and think differently.

Nancy: It’s fear. It’s fear, and you would not think of a bully as being someone w- who is afraid, but there is deep down in there a fear of somebody who’s different so they might actually be better than me, or I don’t know how to handle that, or that calls who I am into question.

Jim: So insecurity and fear and-

Nancy: In- insecurity and fear. Uh-

Jim: Well, uh, bullying came close to your own family, right, or it actually impacted your family, your daughter.

Nancy: It did. It did. Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, what happened there?

Nancy: Uh, my daughter was a little bit on the tomboyish side and to this day she dresses more in a Bohemian, you know, kinda style.

Jim: Yeah, right. (laughs)

Nancy: And so it was the big sweatshirts and just kinda brush the hair and go off to school. And, um, on the day that she was going to have her picture taken in the sixth grade, um, she decided she was going to dress up and so she borrowed something of mine and she did that… I don’t know if you remember this, but that hairstyle where the bangs stood straight up.

Jim: (laughs)

John: Yeah, the spiky thing, yeah.

Nancy: Right, and, and she borrowed a little bit of my lip gloss. She looked adorable. And she went to school and, um, she got there early and the two girls, Heidi and Haley, I’ll never forget their names, The Shining twins, you know what I mean?

Jim: (laughs)

Nancy: And they, (laughs) and they made this big thing about Mary Jane. “Do you have any mirrors in your house? You know, Heidi, you have mirrors in your house.” “Yes.” “I have mirrors in my house. Do you have mirrors in your house?” And finally, Mary Jane said, “Y- y- yes, I have mirrors in my house.” And they said, “Well, you couldn’t possibly have looked in one of them this morning or you wouldn’t come to school looking like that.”

Jim: Oh, man.

Nancy: On the day that she did her best to look-

John: Mm.

Nancy: And that was the beginning of a full-out campaign to make Mary Jane’s life miserable-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … for her whole sixth grade year. But she didn’t confide that in me, and this is key for parents, because she was ashamed. She thought there was something wrong with her-

John: Mm.

Nancy: … that these popular girls would come down on her.

Jim: So she kinda hid that from you.

Nancy: She did.

Jim: What are some of the signs that parents should be looking for? I mean, if you could roll that tape back, or that time back w-

Nancy: There were some red flags.

Jim: What were they?

Nancy: Right. Um, there was the wanting to sort of disappear, so she went back to the big sweatshirts and the hair hanging in her face. Um, she did have her own friends. In a family where you’re watching your child, doesn’t seem to have friends, and yet, you know, this is a perfectly great kid. There’s no reason why this should be happening. Um, there’s a lot of alone time in the bedroom. Um, being a little bit snappy at home. Changes in personality. Changes in, um, their schoolwork. Sleep problems. Stomach issues. Um, and that’s true for boys as well as for girls.

Jim: Hmm.

Nancy: Um, they tend to be angry about it and yet they can’t do anything about it, so that frustration means at home where you’re safe you tend to lash out, and if that’s not your child’s usual M.O., it’s worth looking into.

John: Mm.

Jim: H- how did you deal with it, then? Y- she didn’t share that with you. What unfolded for her?

Nancy: When she finally did, of course, I wanted to go up to that school and wring some little Shining twin necks, okay?

Jim: (laughs) Yeah.

Nancy: I went into full-bore mother bear mode and Mary Jane said, “No, no, no, no. Don’t do that. It will get worse.”

Jim: Hmm.

Nancy: And so we did, um, together try to work out how are you going to handle this? And by this time it was the end of the school year. She decided to just tough it out. The next year when she started seventh grade she said, “You know what? This year I’m gonna find my thing and I’m gonna make straight A’s from here on out,” and there was just over the summer she just had this boost of confidence when-

Jim: But-

Nancy: … when she was apart from them.

Jim: Right, but it sounds like she had great resolve.

Nancy: She did.

Jim: She knew what she wanted to do. What about that child who doesn’t have that well to go to? They’re fragile emotionally.

Nancy: They are.

Jim: They’re changing. They’re not confident. Sounds like your daughter had confidence, which is key.

Nancy: She, she did, and yet, even that didn’t prevent her from being bullied and, and feel the pain.

Jim: Or feel the pain of it.

Nancy: Oh, absolutely.

Jim: But her response was solid.

Nancy: It was. When you have a fragile child, oh, my goodness. The first thing we wanna do is take them out of the school. Go up there, talk to that principal, talk to those parents. What we really need to do is try to empower them. Let’s make the first step trying to handle this yourself with me as your ally. Now if there’s physical bullying going on, all bets are off. Okay?

Jim: Right.

Nancy: If it’s truly interv-

Jim: Safety.

Nancy: Right, safety is absolutely key.

John: Nancy, what’s a good script, then, for me as a parent? If I’ve heeded the warning signs, I’ve seen, oops, something’s going on, I need to have that conversation. How do I do that with a school where the teachers already have so much on them?

Nancy: Mm-hmm. Um, we keep it at home first, and we really ask our kids, “Okay, so something’s going on here. You wanna talk to me about this? I’m going to listen. I’m not gonna interrupt. I’m not gonna tell you what to do. I’m not gonna ask you any questions. I just want you to tell me the story.” You may have to put some duct tape over your mouth, (laughs) but you need to just-

John: Mm.

Nancy: … sit back and listen and let them tell you the story, and then-

Jim: But you’re being serious there. You’re encouraging parents not to talk back.

Nancy: I am being serious. Do not interrupt. Don’t interrupt. Just let them talk. As a wife, and I’m sure you guys are both spouses, (laughs) how many times have you just said, “I, I need to talk to you about something,” and then immediately your spouse has the answer and it’s just infuriating ’cause you really just need to vent. That’s what they need to do in a place that’s safe.

John: Mm.

Nancy: Then when you respond, this is toughest for fathers, when you have a son who’s being bullied, it’s tough for fathers not to say, “Well, don’t be a wuss. Get in there, give back that bully, you know, what he’s given you. Don’t let him do this to you. D-” and then of course the shame just multiplies because then it’s my fault, isn’t it? It’s my fault that I’m being bullied.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: So the first thing with boys and girls we need to respond with is, “You know this isn’t your fault, right? This says nothing about you and everything about those kids who are giving you a bad time. You are a good person. We’re gonna help you with this. We’re gonna be your ally.”

Jim: A- and Nancy, y- you touched on this, uh, what are those next good steps? You don’t want to put your child in worse danger.

Nancy: Exactly.

Jim: Um, so how do you come up with the plan to deal with it tomorrow?

Nancy: I think we need to look, um, to Jesus for this because the things that we say to our kids are not things that ever came out of Jesus’ mouth. The first thing we want to say to them is, “Well, just ignore it.” Ignoring it is not the answer, but you don’t want to engage in it, okay? So you need to say… Now don’t, don’t, um, say, “Oh, yeah? Well, then you’re a… you know.”

Jim: Right.

Nancy: And then we’ve got the whole thing going. Or, “Why are you doing this to me? Why are you so mean to me?” Because then you’re feeding the bully. So we wanna say, first of all, “Please don’t feed the bullies.” Okay? So what do you say? Instead of saying, “Don’t ignore it,” you simply say, “But don’t engage.” Okay? Help them to find one-liners, like, “Yeah, I’m a geek and proud of it.” And then you walk away. It’s always the one-liner and then you walk away. My very favorite one is, “Really? You just said that to me? I thought you were better than that.”

Jim: Kind of put it right back on them.

Nancy: Well, that because what are they gonna say? “No, I am not better than that.”

Jim: Yeah, right. (laughs)

Nancy: Right? (laughs) Um, the second thing i- to tell them is, “Do not let that bully know that this is getting to you.”

Jim: Mm.

Nancy: It’s one of those “fake it till you make it” things. That doesn’t go on forever. That’s just the first step. And, um, so with the So Not Okay program, which is for tween girls, we have part of our code is, “Save the tears.” You just say, “Really? You really think you can get to me with that?” Then you go to the restroom with all the other girls and then you cry.

Jim: Ah.

Nancy: But you do not let that girl see you cry because that gives her power. Then, of course, we don’t want them to always be faking it. We want them to actually feel like they have the power to be themselves. And so if you have a child who’s really fragile and vulnerable, the long-term plan is to, “What do you like to do? What are you good at? Let’s get you into something where you can build that confidence-”

Jim: Huh.

Nancy: “… so it really doesn’t bother you as much.” You notice that I’m not saying, “We need to change the bully.”

Jim: Right.

Nancy: Because we really can’t. That child does not have the power to do that and that’s putting way too much pressure. “You have to stop them”? No. These are powerful kids. You just take back the power to be yourself. Isn’t that what turning the other cheek is? It’s not, “Okay, well, go ahead and bully me some more.” It’s, “You hit me once? Go ahead with your thing, but you’re not getting to me with this. I’ve got the power to be who I am.”

Jim: Uh, Nancy, in fact, uh, you speak to, uh, young people all the time-

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and you were at a Faithgirlz event and I believe, uh, a young lady came up to you, uh, that caught your eye.

Nancy: She did.

Jim: What happened?

Nancy: Uh, one of the things we did at the Faithgirlz events was give away a free book to every girl who was there with her mom, even if she couldn’t… So that if she couldn’t afford to buy one, she could still come through the line and get one signed, and that was part of the deal is that at the end, every girl gets to come by and have a book signed. And sometimes you’re talking about 500 or 600 girls.

Jim: Oh, that will take a long time.

Nancy: It does, and, but it’s just that, you know.

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: Just that moment.

Jim: Oh, and they’re so vulnerable at that age.

Nancy: Oh, and some of them can hardly speak. You would think that I was, you know, Garth Brooks, for crying out loud.

Jim: (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Nancy: Um, so one girl, I recall, um, she had that hangdog look.

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: You know, the hair hanging down. She didn’t wanna make eye contact. Her mom said, “Well, go ahead. Tell her your name.” So I said, “What year are you?” “Oh, I’m in middle school.” I said, “How’s that going for you?”

Jim: Oh.

Nancy: And she just broke down. “It’s not good.”

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: “It’s not good.” And she was just the typical target for no other reason than that she wasn’t Susie Trendy.

Jim: Correct.

Nancy: On trend was not her favorite prepositional phrase.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: You know, and, and you could see that there was so much in there and she was really hurting. So I said, “You know what? Forget those girls who are being mean to you. You don’t need them, okay? Let’s work on you. You find out what makes you tick.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: “What makes you awesome? And you just focus on that.” And this is one time when I will say, “Just pretend that they don’t exist. You just work on you.” And so the next year it was a different town in Michigan, one of the close-by towns. I think one was Grand Rapids, one was, you know, Plymouth or something. And this girl comes through the line and, of course, I met a lot of girls so there was no w- way I was gonna remember names, but she had this look like, “I have got something I wanna say to you,” and I actually remembered the mom, and she said, “I have to tell you something.” She said, “This whole last year after you talked to me last year, that’s what I did, and now I have all these friends,” and she said, “It turned me around.” It’s all it took was one conversation of saying, “Be who you are-”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: “… in a society that says, ‘Oh, no, there’s only one way you can be.’”

Jim: Uh, that’s a beautiful picture and what you’re giving that girl and what all of us as parents and adults, um, you know, our, our kids’ friends, if they need it, is confidence. And that hopefully is rooted in Christ, right?

Nancy: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jim: I love that statement. Our confidence is in the Lord. Um, and if you can get a child, uh, moving in that direction-

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … then they’re not looking for those other external, um, uh, accolades and things.

Nancy: Exactly. And we have to make that concrete for them-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: … that the whole, “Jesus did not say ignore it. Jesus did not say, um, hit back.” That’s the old eye for an eye.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: Tooth for a tooth. Jesus did not say, “Hate that girl for the rest of your life,” ’cause then we get into the forgiveness part of the whole thing, which really does change things. If we’re saying to our kids, “Now I know you… I, we don’t want you to be best friends with these kids or even try to be their friends. They’re not people you wanna be friends with.” But hating them and wanting revenge and wanting to get back at them is not a Jesus thing and it’s not gonna help this at all because if we can talk about why, why do these kids do this? Something’s going on in there. They’re not just mean from birth.

John: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: I’ve never seen a mean baby.

Jim: Right. (laughs)

Nancy: And, uh, if we can talk to them about, “Let’s pray that, you know, they’ll get better. They’ll heal. Let’s not wish them any harm.” It does change the dynamic deep inside ’cause that, of course, is, that’s Jesus.

Jim: And it’s so good, and I like tying it. If you think about it, that’s exactly what Jesus did. He gave the one-liners to the Pharisees.

Nancy: That’s it.

Jim: “Oh, okay, I’ll answer that if you can answer me this.” (laughs)

Nancy: Mm-hmm. Well, exactly. (laughs)

Jim: And then walk away.

Nancy: M- e- absolutely.

Jim: I mean, that is really interesting that-

John: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: He never argued with them.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: Didn’t get into dialogues and debates. He just-

Jim: He just said something profound. Bam. A-

Nancy: This is how it is and, and walk away.

Jim: M- made them think about what they were doing-

Nancy: Exactly.

Jim: … as opposed to, uh, owning their shame.

Nancy: Right. And, of course, they got worse, right?

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: And bullies will temporarily get worse-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … because they’re not gonna like the fact that they’re not winning.

Jim: Uh, when that, uh, line has been crossed… We didn’t address it fully. When should a parent, uh, head to the school to talk to the principal or the s- teachers and how do you go about doing that?

Nancy: That’s a good question. Um, I think the minute there’s any sign that there’s anything physical going on, so if you’re seeing scratches and bruises and, that are unexplained, or your child is saying, “Well, yeah, he did push me, shove me, and hit me in the stomach.” If belongings are missing or grades have gone completely down the tubes and your child is depressed.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Nancy: And we’re talking in the room, crying-

John: Mm.

Nancy: … sleep is not happening, appetite has fallen off, “I just don’t wanna do anything.” Then we’re talking about-

Jim: They’re being traumatized.

Nancy: So they’re being traumatized. It’s, this is PTSD that we’re talking about here.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: Then it is not just for your own child’s benefit, but for every other kid at that school that this needs to be addressed, and what we really need to do is say, “Are there any other kids that are being bullied?” Because there is safety in numbers and if we can bring in, not just as a full-frontal attack on the administration, but here’s a group of concerned parents. If we can keep our cool, and we can simply say, “Here is the problem. How can we work together to solve this problem?” And we need to request that the, um, proximity of that bully or those bullies to our child be limited. There are p- teachers who won’t move kids in the classroom. “You’re just gonna need to work it out.” You know? “You kids…” especially girls. “You girls and your drama.” If girls are coming to the teacher, and if boys are coming to the teacher then you know it’s really a thing, um, they need to be paid attention to.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: And it’s, to me, that’s the real shame is that we’re not believing our kids.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: Kids do not like to tattle and when you say, “Okay, report alert,” which means this is the time when we need to go to a grownup, they go, “I don’t wanna tattle.” So we need to make this distinction. Um, tattling is done to get somebody else in trouble. Reporting is done to get somebody out of trouble.

Jim: Oh, that is excellent.

Nancy: Okay?

Jim: I like that.

Nancy: So, um, when the teacher has been told and nothing’s being done, then yes, it’s the administration we need to go to, and we need to have clear requests. Rather than, “You need to do something about this,” it’s, “What I would like to see is for my child not to have to sit next to these kids. Um, I would really like for my child not to be put in a group, you know, to work… I would really like for someone on the playground, or in the PE class, in the locker room where these things happen to just be monitoring the situation.”

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: Because it really shouldn’t be up to my child who’s being victimized to solve this problem.

John: Mm.

Nancy: That just doesn’t make any sense.

Jim: Well, and I so appreciate that idea that as adults we tend to think, “Well, this is what happened when I grew up. This is part of growing up. You just gotta thicken up your skin and go for it.”

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s not a good excuse for adults.

Nancy: It is not and, um, whenever I have a group of parents in a room, I will say, “Raise your hand if you remember learning about fractions.” Maybe a couple hands go up. “Who was your fifth grade teacher?” “Um, was it Mrs….” Mm, they’re muttering to each other. And I say, “Who remembers the name of the kid that bullied you?”

Jim: Bam, everybody’s hand goes up.

Nancy: Everybody remembers that. And then I will say, “How many of you were affected by that for quite some time?”

John: Mm.

Nancy: You would be amazed. And the way they say those names, “Oh, yeah. It was Linda Sherer. Oh, yeah.” You can just hear it still in there.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: I have seen moms get tears in their eyes. Um, recently a writer friend of mine, um, was looking for an agent because he’s written a book for boys about bullying and he’s ju- and he’s shopping it around. And this agent said, “I’m sorry. I just can’t take this on because I was bullied so badly as a kid I don’t even think I wanna be in proximity to a book.”

Jim: Oh, my goodness.

John: Huh.

Nancy: Yeah. We’re talking about-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … in-… That’s sad.

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: Instead of, “You know what? Yes, I would really like to get this book out there.”

Jim: He’s still being intimidated by it.

Nancy: He’s still being intimidated.

John: Mm.

Jim: Uh, n- Nancy, we can’t end the program without talking about Linda, who you just… that fictional person you just mentioned. What if you’re the parent of the bullier?

Nancy: That’s a tough one. That’s really a tough one. Uh, but there are warning signs, first of all, that your child is a bully. Don’t wait until somebody complains because then you are on the defensive, right? So the first thing I would urge parents to do is look at your kids and be around when they’re with their friends. It’s a little bit harder when they’re teenagers, but you know, there are opportunities, and watch how they treat the people they call friends because if they’re sniping at each other and your daughter is always the one that says, “Well, then go home if we’re not gonna do it my way,” you know there’s a clique going on. You watch your son and how he, maybe he’s got his cronies that follow (laughs) along. Those are some warning signs. If your child at the dinner table has nothing kind to say about anyone, look at that dinner table, by the way, and see what kind of example you’re all setting.

Jim: One of the things I try to do is to ask my kids at the beginning of every school year, and remind them throughout the school year, to befriend, um, people that don’t have friends.

Nancy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim: You know, sit with somebody at lunch-

Nancy: Absolutely.

Jim: … that is all alone.

Nancy: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And that’s part of your faith expression.

Nancy: It is.

Jim: That’s what Christ would want you to do at this age. Um, it’s something you can do, and go out of your way to look for somebody who’s an outsider.

John: Mm.

Nancy: And you know you can make a profound difference that way because 30% of kids are either bullied or are bullies, which leaves 70% of the kids who are watching it happen-

Jim: Right.

Nancy: … and they don’t know what to do.

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: They’re the bystanders.

Jim: Right.

Nancy: And those kids are afraid they’re gonna become the target-

Jim: Yeah.

Nancy: … or they get it in their minds then, “We’re gonna form a group.” Um, it’s gonna be like the revenge of the nerds or something. (laughs) That’s not what we want.

Jim: It’s kind of that groupthink and it’s, I think we have to learn-

Nancy: Yeah.

Jim: … how to break out for the right reasons and not think that way.

Nancy: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Jim: Nancy Rue, it has been great to talk with you about this. You know, I’m reminded of 2 Timothy 1:7, “For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control,” and that’s what you have alluded to today. Uh, the one-liner, the coaching of your child, go ahead and role-play. Uh, let them be the bully. Play the part. Respond with the right words. Those are all really good things to do, and I so appreciate the time with you, and, uh, to be able to discuss this really important topic. Thanks.

Nancy: Well, thank you, and I appreciate y- you taking this issue so seriously.

Jim: Mm.

Nancy: And, uh, it’s an honor to be here and I, I hope we’ve helped some parents today.

John: We heard some great wisdom from Nancy Rue today and, uh, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I trust that she did help you become aware of the scope of bullying and, uh, why it’s an issue, and also equipped you with some practical steps you can take, uh, for you and your child to stand up and put a stop to it.

Jim: John, e- I think it’s easy to think that maybe bullying today wasn’t what it used to be, you know? Uh, but I think it’s pretty similar. The only difference now is you have social media that can add weight to it-

John: Mm.

Jim: … especially for girls. I think there’s a lot more bullying that occurs for girls today than maybe what occurred 40 years ago.

John: Mm.

Jim: Uh, but my goodness. I mean, it all has tremendous consequences for us emotionally, spiritually, and physically sometimes. And here at Focus on the Family we want to help you through the ups and downs of the parenting battles and this is one that many parents encounter and that’s why we’re covering it. We do feel strongly about putting an end to bullying and helping equip you as a parent with resources like an audio collection of some of our top episodes to help encourage you and your child. In this free collection you’ll hear more on the topic of bullying as well as ways to nurture your child’s purpose and passion. Popular guests like Dr. Kathy Koch, Dr. Kevin Leman, who, uh, deliver very practical help and hope as you seek to develop your child’s sense of worth and identity in Christ, which is critical.

John: Mm-hmm. And again, this is absolutely free, and we’ve got details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And while you’re at the site, be sure to check out our newly revised Thriving Student podcast. We have a new season and, uh, you can kick off the new school year by learning how you can help your child succeed more effectively. And tomorrow, Dr. Greg Jantz takes a look at the impact that trauma can have in your life and the ways that you can heal from it.

Dr. Gregory Jantz: Trauma ignored creates more trauma later.

Jim: Yeah.

Dr. Jantz: It’s always worth walking through it.