Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Excerpt:

Jack Chapman: I’m Jack and I’m three. Uh, I like dinosaurs and I love pizza and ice cream. And like, my mom is my best friend.

Excerpt:

John Fuller: (laughs) well, if you didn’t catch that, little Jack loves dinosaurs, and pizza, and ice cream, and he said his mom is his best friend. And you’ll hear more from his mom today on Focus on the Family. She’s our guest, and, uh, your host is Focus president, and author, Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, it’s impossible to hear that little voice, and not have a smile on your face.

John: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, that’s the amazing thing about children. Uh, even when times are tough, or life is hard, they can always bring us joy and hope, and I think they do. Uh, of course, I understand that it doesn’t always feel like that, especially, in the midst of an unplanned pregnancy, and we’ve covered that many times on the program. Uh, the enemy and the world, uh, tries so hard to shame women in that situation, convincing them that they’ve ruined their lives by getting pregnant, and many times entire families feel the weight of that condemnation as well. Uh, but as Paul reminds us in Romans 8, “For those who love God, uh, all things work for good.” And sometimes I- we struggle to figure that out.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: But, over time it usually reveals itself. Uh, this week during Sanctity of Human Life week, uh, we want to highlight God’s amazing love for each, and every one of us, uh, and how he can take even the most difficult situation, and turn it into something beautiful.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, we have quite a story today. Kourtney Rea Chapman and her dad, Kevin Rea are with us, and Kourtney is a wife and a mom, and Kevin is a businessmen and CEO. He’s married to Kim, and let me mention, there will be, uh, some discussions about mature topics today so, uh, you’ll want to direct the attention of little ones elsewhere.

Jim: Uh, Kourtney and Kevin, welcome to Focus on the Family,

Kourtney Rea Chapman: Hey, we’re excited-

Kevin Rea: Thank you.

Kourtney: … to be here, thank you.

Jim: And you’re dad and daughter, and, uh-

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: It’s awesome to see you guys and just watching you interact. I see the love that you have for each other. Uh, Kourtney, I wanna jump right in with your story. Uh, you were in your early twenties with big dreams of becoming a professional singer and songwriter when you got some news that was going to derail, you thought, those plans. What happened?

Kourtney: Yeah. Um, I had a boyfriend, um, grew up, ni- had a whole plan to not have sex before marriage, put it bluntly, and, um, you know, I, I failed at that. Um, and, uh, I kind of kept that secret. I, eventually my family found out, but it was something I’d always struggled with. I would go through these times of remaining pure, and then, man, I really love this guy, I think it’s okay, and, and just struggling with the temptation. Um, make a long story short, met this guy, love of my life, I became pregnant, and it wasn’t planned, it wasn’t, um th-

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: … the right time at all.

Jim: Let me ask, and we’re going to unfold that story, but let me ask you, uh, you were raised in a Christian home. I know dad is sitting right next to you, and I appreciate your vulnerability, your openness to talk about this, because these are things that many families face, and if it’s not this topic, it’ll be something else, and I, it is so helpful and instructive to hear from people that have gone through it, and what was good, and what was more difficult, but, uh, Kourtney, I wanna aim this at you, you were raised in that kind of good Christian home. You made that purity commitment, as you said, and I’m a father of two young adult men, 18 and 20, and I have to ask w- w- what, from your perspective, went wrong with that absorption of that message. I mean, wha- what would you say at the core, uh, that you, you ended up failing at that?

Kourtney: You know what? I think if I look back on my teen years, um, at home, and at church, every time, um, sex was brought up, it was like this black box that you just don’t touch.

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: Um, and I feel like there was never this discussion to any degree of how it’s a gift, it’s a beautiful thing. I feel like if I felt more comfortable talking, I might have felt like, “Hey, this is a temptation I’m struggling with.” Um, and it was just put in such a, a light that we don’t talk about that. Um, and I didn’t wanna let my family down, you know?’ If we can’t even talk about it, church doesn’t even talk about it, I definitely don’t want them to know I’m struggling with it.

Jim: Well, and that’s not unique. I mean, I’m gonna-

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: … let your dad off the hook a little bit here, because we all struggle with that as Christian parents, particularly, because we’re uncomfortable with that topic, right?

Kourtney: (laughs).

Jim: Um, and a lot of Christian marriages struggle with the freedom of that gift that God gives us in marriage. We do a lot of counseling with couples that struggle even after they’re married-

Kourtney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … with the idea that this is okay now. So, you know, we get it, and we understand the taboos. Let me ask you though, before we turn to your dad, uh, when you told your parents about the pregnancy, uh, your dad said some, uh, words that really impacted you, and what did he say?

Kourtney: He said, basically, in a nutshell, um, that I was a disappointment, that I let him down, I let the family name down, and it, it validated my own self fear, because that’s how I felt, and that’s why I didn’t wanna tell anybody, and I wanted to keep it in the dark, you know?

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: And, um-

Jim: What you feared was coming about.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And you heard it first from your dad.

Kourtney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin: Hmm.

Jim: Kevin, let me turn to you, and I, again, and I, your boldness is applaudable, so thank you for being here both of you. Your stories, uh, when you hear Kourtney say that, how does that make you feel?

Kevin: Uh, I mean, it, it, it makes me wanna tear up.

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: You know, I, I know that I had a tremendous opportunity in that moment, and I didn’t take advantage of it. Um…

Jim: Well, but I mean, you’re on the other side of it.

Kevin: Yes.

Jim: And so, like we said, in the beginning, Romans 8 works for you too.

Kevin: Absolutely.

Jim: And (laughs) not just your daughter in this situation, so, w- w- uh, I mean, describe that frustration. What, and I, I think I understand it being a dad, when you get that news, w- it’s like a frying pan coming upside your head. I mean, what did you feel like?

Kevin: Well, I felt, I felt anger, I felt frustration, I felt like I had, um, been betrayed. I mean, I, I put myself first, you know, and instead of, I mean, I don’t know if that’s what you wanna get into, but I felt mad, and I was ticked off.

Jim: Yeah, that’s the normal-

Kevin: I felt like normal she blew what I had planned for her.

Jim: Right.

Kevin: Which is part of the problem, but there was a lot of my just, you know, honestly looking back in retrospect, uh, I was caught spiritually unprepared for the news, and I shouldn’t have been. Um, like I said, it was a beautiful moment that I could have hit out of the park for my Lord, and really come alongside her, and that’s why it’s still so raw-

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: … you know, to hear her, you know, say the truth, that was the truth. She actually, it was better than what I did (laughs).

Kourtney: (laughs).

Kevin: Um, it just saddens me, you know, that I wasn’t ready to hear those news, and I can hide behind I just wanted her best, but quite frankly, exactly what she said. I was embarrassed, I didn’t wanna bring it up, I didn’t wanna talk about it, I didn’t understand how she could put us in this position, and it was just-

Jim: And, to a degree that’s pointing to, yeah, she’s a reflection of you.

Kevin: Right.

Jim: And, your family, and th- that’s gotta be part of what this is rooted in, that you’re saying, “What have you done? Look at this.” And-

Kourtney: I think it was fear too.

Kevin: Absolutely. Yeah what’s next?

Jim: Fear of?

Kourtney: He’s my protectors. S- my dad’s my best friend, you know? I- we’re, we’re tight, and my whole childhood, I knew he had my back, and I didn’t want to let him down.

Jim: Huh.

Kourtney: You know? And, I think more than anyone the p- I was the most afraid to tell him.

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: Because I, we’d had these talks, and I knew what he expected, and it was, um, scary to let someone that at the time was the most influential person in my life-

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: … know, “Hey, I failed, you know? I did it. (laughs). I’m pregnant, and…”

Jim: Yeah, and I, yeah, I appreciate that. The, um, I guess in, as we’re talking about this hole that was being dug, let me take the next shovel load out, because, uh, what crossed your mind, Kevin as dad was, is abortion an option. I mean, you actually had that flash of a thought, because it would be easy.

Kevin: Yes, absolutely, and you know, I got great counsel for my friends and, and church members, but in retrospect I look back. Yeah, and part of the problem with that was I think the verbiage that I was saying, whether it was from the adversary, or my own fears, and frustration, and anger was, it was a situation. It was a problem to be dealt with.

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: And, looking back in retrospect, I can see how the Lord, like, no, it was a child, a baby.

Jim: Right.

Kevin: And, if I had a thought and used those terms, it would have maybe helped me not even let that flash through my mind.

Jim: And, I’m gonna I- uh, I don’t normally do this, I’m gonna give you a heads up, because toward the end of the program, I’m gonna ask you to replay the tape that would’ve been better. You said the Lord gave you an opportunity, so just think about that as we continue-

Kevin: Okay.

Jim: … through, ’cause my last question to you is gonna be, play the tape back differently, and that really will be a benefit for those of us, like I said, my two young boys. I may get that news someday, so the, for the listener who either just heard the news or is about to hear this news, that their daughter, their son they’re pregnant and not married, so give that some thought as we continue through. Kourtney, I wanna turn back to you because, um, it’s really important, and, uh, I’m speaking to you as a dad.

Kourtney: Hmm.

Jim: You know, again, we’re, um, we all fall short.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: Right? But this idea that, you know, we have this, uh, projection of perfection, if I could say it that way.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: That we want our kids, we want ourselves, we want our marriages to reflect Christ. It’s not a bad goal. It’s a noble goal. It’s a good thing, but when that becomes more important than what’s real-

Kourtney: Right.

Jim: … then we’re in trouble, and, uh, coming back to you again, you say that at the time you felt love from your parents, you talked about your relationship with your dad. You’re in church, you know that God loves you, and yet, uh, describe that idea that perfection seemed to be the goal. In fact, I think you-

Kourtney: Okay.

Jim: … use a soccer story. What happened with the soccer story that really does suggest, you know, we expect a lot out of you.

Kourtney: Yeah. I mean, that’s just a t- little example. Um, I remember growing up, I’ve always an athlete, that’s one of the reasons we were so close, you know, it was (laughs) something we had together-

Jim: It’s your love language (laughs).

Kourtney: (laughs) yeah, uh, I- I- for real, it was (laughs). Um, and there was just one time, you know, I remember I was being at practice, and I love that this man was so involved. He didn’t miss a practice, let alone a game. I mean, he was the dad taking notes at practice, you know-

Jim: (laughs).

Kourtney: … to help me, and we’d go practice together, and, um, and it was great, but, um, there’s one particular practice I remember, and I was young, I don’t know th- 12, 13, and um, I missed a goal or something, and um, I looked up, and he was so upset, and he took his hat off, and he left, and he went to his truck, and it, it hurt my heart so much, because it made me feel like he wasn’t just there to watch me. It was maybe like, uh, uh, he was there to watch me, but he wanted me to be the best, and I know that comes from a place of wanting me to succeed, and because we practiced together, and I know had good intentions, but at the time it made me feel like, “Man, I have to be perfect. If I even mess up, I’m not worth sticking around for.” You know?

Jim: Oh, I, no, I get this, and again, man, I applaud your vulnerability, both of you to be able to share so-

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: … honestly about this, because so many of us in the Christian community, we cover, we sweep this over, right?

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: No, no, no, I don’t, I’m unconditional in my love.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: But, most often we’re not. We need to see some performance.

Kevin: Hmm.

Jim: And then, we’re gonna, you know, give you the that a girls, or the that a boys.

Kevin: Hmm.

Jim: But, I- in that context, let’s jump back to your story. We talked about your dad’s instinct-

Kourtney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … or his thought about abortion, ha- what was your process there? Did you think about that? And, what did you try to do?

Kourtney: Instantly, that I mean, and I’m embarrassed to say that because I, I come from a homeschool, Christian school background. I’ve no abortion drawing. I believe I’ve argued with people at, in high school (laughs) I did that, I think abortion’s wrong. Here I am sitting in a gas station parking (laughs) lot. I couldn’t even go home to take the pregnancy test. I took it at a gas station, ’cause I was like, “I don’t, I don’t want to see it in the garbage.” I just, I didn’t want to accept it, I didn’t even want it at the house. Like (laughs) I just wanted to keep it in-

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: … its own little entity.

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: And, I’m sitting in a gas station parking lot, in my little white Acura. First, thought that popped into my head was I got to have an abortion, and it scared me to myself, because it, you know, how I was raised on one side of me and my fear on the other side in the, in the midst of the moment, everything I stood against didn’t matter anymore. The way out was just so, uh, tempting.

Jim: So, how did that process play out over hours, days, et cetera, what happened?

Kourtney: Uh, so I called Tucker, um, who was my boyfriend at the time, and we hadn’t been together long, so I’m thinking this relationship’s definitely about to end (laughs). I called him and I was crying, and uh, I just, he answered the phone, and I said, “I’m pregnant. It’s okay, I understand we’re, we’re done.” And, I hung up, and (laughs) I just broke up with him. Like, you don’t have to do it. I’ll do it. I’ll take one-

Jim: Not even waiting for his response.

Kourtney: … for the team. Didn’t even wait for a response.

Jim: Wow.

Kourtney: I just hung up, and just, just sat there, like just kinda numb, and I’m, it’s like you’re frozen, so I got in my car, and I kind of paused that thoughts of abortion. and just transitioned it to, okay, let’s just accept what’s happening for a minute.

Jim: Right. You had that conversation, and I don’t know exactly what took place there, but you still made a, an appointment with Planned Parenthood, correct?

Kourtney: Yeah, yeah, I did, and I, I didn’t end up going, but they had a, um, I don’t know if it was like a phone counselor. Um, she answered, and those receptionists, but they put me on the line with somebody, and she was the total opposite of what I was expecting from the church, my family, my friends. It was so welcoming in like, “Uh, sweetheart, it’s okay. Listen, you don’t have to explain it. Everyone’s been there. We got this covered. No one will know. Don’t worry, come talk.” It was so like calming. It was what I needed-

Jim: And, she even reinforced-

Kourtney: … in that moment.

Jim: … it’s not a baby.

Kourtney: Yes.

Jim: It’s just a bunch of cells.

Kourtney: Uh, oh yeah, “It’s not a baby. You don’t have to face this. Your parents will never have to know. Your friends will never have to know. We can just, don’t even let it hurt you, we can get this handled.” You know, e- like, it was just as simple as, you know, just erasing something.

Jim: Right, and that did lead you to at least schedule an appointment-

Kourtney: Yeah, and I, I did.

Jim: Right?

Kourtney: I made an appointment. I didn’t tell anybody that-

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: … I made an appointment.

Jim: And so, you’re headed to the appointment and what happened?

Kourtney: So, I’m driving to the appointment, and as very, just in a stoic state of mind, I usually listen to music, and you know, I’m a happy driver, and I-

Jim: Was this three days later, four days later?

Kourtney: Uh…

Jim: Week?

Kourtney: I would say about a week later.

Jim: Okay.

Kourtney: Um, and the- they had found out they had freaked out.

Jim: Your parents?

Kourtney: Yeah, and, um, they didn’t know I was contemplating this, but I was like, “What’s the harm? I’m just gonna go, I’m just gonna hear them out.” So, I’m on my way there, and I’m driving, and for the first time, it’s, I just get this image in my head, and I’m sitting at a stoplight, and it’s out, out of left field, and it’s of what I picture Jesus to be. Um, standing in heaven, he’s holding a baby, and, I’m, I’m just like, now, you know what? And, what’s the significance of that? It’s just so random, and, um, what he spoke just changed everything. It changed my entire life. Um, he said, “One of us is going to hold this child, and the decision of who that’s going to be is up to you. It’s going to be you or me.” And-

Jim: Wow, that is powerful.

Kevin: Hmm.

Kourtney: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: I don’t wanna just go right by that, that’s an amazing experience.

Kourtney: Yeah, and I think seeing him with a baby that in his arms, it really hit home, this isn’t nothing, this isn’t a clump of cells, this isn’t, th- I- it’s a child, and really someone is gonna, I mean, I believe in God, I believe in heaven. If I go through with this abortion, he is gonna hold my child. I wanna hold that baby. You know? And, it just, I wanted to take the power back, and try to right my wrong.

Jim: And you turned around?

Kourtney: Yeah. I stopped.

Jim: You didn’t go.

Kourtney: I, I instantly stopped. I pulled over. Tucker was completely supportive. I told him of our or my decision. He wanted the same thing.

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: I was battling him (laughs)-

Jim: Right.

Kourtney: … on it.

John: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, that’s Kourtney Rea Chapman, and she and her dad, Kevin Rea are our guests today on Focus on the Family, and uh, we want you to know we’re here. If you’re facing some things in life that you didn’t plan on that are causing a lot of angst, and, um, really troublesome to your soul, give us a call, let us, uh, connect you with one of our caring Christian counselors. Uh, we have other resources as well. Our number here, 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Uh, Kourtney, you decided to turn around. You didn’t go through with the abortion, but you still felt your parents were disappointed in you, uh, but you saw a shift after that first ultrasound.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: Man, we believe in ultrasound.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Kevin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: So, describe that, and then, what you saw with your dad at that moment as well.

Kourtney: Yeah, we’re, we’re in the ultrasound room. Um, and I’m laying there, and um, and, yeah, I don’t know what to expect. I’ve never been pregnant before, and-

Jim: Yeah, and how far long are you?

Kourtney: Uh, I think this was early, maybe 10 weeks.

Jim: Hmm.

Kourtney: I mean, this was one, there wasn’t much to see, but you could definitely see little legs, and-

Jim: Heartbeat was probably there.

Kourtney: Oh, that was-

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: … the first thing that just-

Jim: Yeah, yeah, boom, boom.

Kourtney: The sound before the picture came up of the heartbeat was just like, it just made it real. This is-

Jim: It’s an amazing thing.

Kourtney: This is a, not just a baby, but like mine. It’s my baby.

Jim: You sound like you were excited.

Kourtney: Oh, I was excited.

Jim: (laughs) when you saw that?

Kourtney: I pulled out my phone, I was like, “You gotta let me record this. Like, I got to…”

Jim: Right.

Kevin: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: … record his little heartbeat. Um, they put it on the screen, the picture on the screen of the ultrasound, and I just, we all, my dad was there, my mom was there, and I mean, I- I mean talk about a 180, everyone in the room started crying. It was just, it’s a baby, it’s got everything, it’s a gift, it’s a gift. It’s so crazy how God can turn something that we’re all so afraid of, and now we’re, we’re excited, and it’s a life, and we get to see it, his little legs and arms move (laughs).

Jim: Well, it sounds like what happens in that circumstance, and again, I haven’t been in this yet.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And, I hope it goes differently, but if it doesn’t, we’ll react, but priorities start to fall into better place, right?

Kourtney: Right.

Jim: Uh, fear abates, and looking down the road at what this child will be starts to fill your dreams.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And, your ideas, and your thoughts. Kevin, ha- how about you with that ultrasound? What was going through your mind?

Kevin: Well, the Lord had been working on me like, “Look, your daughter’s getting support from the father. She’s getting better support from Planned Parenthood at this point, you know.” (laughs) I mean, it was humbling-

Jim: Wow.

Kevin: … and braking.

Jim: Look at that.

Kevin: Um, but it culminated at the ultrasound. It definitely was a, a watershed moment where we could see life. We could see it. I, it just was absolutely riveting, and it, it changed the narrative. Like I said, the verbiage from that point on, there was no question. Every conversation, if somebody said, “Hey, how’s Kourtney doing with the situation?” [inaudible 00:19:23], “She’s having a baby, it’s a child.”

Jim: Right.

Kevin: Uh, it was just a dramatic shift in the mental focus and thought pattern of seeing that in her womb was just amazing.

Jim: And you, you talk about the change that you had in your parenting style, and this is maybe the core for us parents that are listening.

Kevin: Yes.

Jim: Um, describe that, how this experience changed how you viewed the parenting role?

Kevin: Well, not just this experience, but also counseling, you know, has showed me. You know, she glossed over pretty good to the soccer incident. There was many, and I would love to claim to the narrative that it was because I was just so encouraged for her, but it was unhealthy.

Jim: (laughs) well you were driven.

Kevin: It was unhealthy.

Jim: I mean, I was already there. I kind of read between the lines.

Kevin: A- and, it was a pretty intense scrimmage, and there was a scout there, and so, there’s a little bit more to the story, but I’ve learned through this that I cannot, when my child stumbles, and she begins to let the Lord pick her up, and walk down a godly path, I cannot be a hindrance in any way, shape or form. I’m her earthly father, and what she gleams in those moments from me has a direct impact to how she views her heavenly father, and I-

Jim: So true.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: You’re making me cry now, so-

Kevin: (laughs).

Jim: … knock it off.

Kourtney: Can, can I say one thing and interject here? Um, ’cause I don’t even think I’ve told you this how much it meant to me, but um, I, it’s just hitting me recounting how awesome that ultrasound moment was. You said something, “He did it.” (laughs) so Jack did a little back flip on the ultrasound, wee, and kicked his legs.

Jim: (laughs).

Kourtney: And do you remember what you said? He said, “That’s my girl’s soccer legs.”

Kevin: (laughs).

Kourtney: And it was such a full circle moment, because-

Kevin: Yeah.

Kourtney: … it was like, you know, it’s so, it, it just tied in my whole past 20s years (laughs).

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: You know, “That’s my baby’s soccer legs.”

Jim: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kourtney: And, now it’s on, he was disappointed, and now he’s excited for his grandson (laughs). He is just-

Jim: No, it, it’s sweet. I mean, it is.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: It’s changing the mindset from, you know, what we have bought into, what we believe.

Kourtney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: Even in the Christian community, that this is a clump of tissue, it’s really not a baby. They tell you that, they reinforce that, but you know, it’s baby.

Kourtney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: And, all it needs is time, and then, you have Jack.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And he’s probably already now running on that soccer field-

Kourtney: Uh, yes.

Jim: … I imagine at three, but you did end up marrying Jack’s dad, uh, and you have another son together now.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And how are you doing? People are gonna say-

Kourtney: We’re doing good.

Jim: … Jim you never asked how she’s doing.

Kourtney: We’re doing good, we have another, we have a one-year-old, William, and those two boys are peas in a pod.

Kevin: (laughs).

Kourtney: They keep us busy.

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: We’re, we’re doing good. We’re dealing with normal marriage stuff (laughs).

Jim: Right, and I, that was really the next question. Um, so often fear is gonna grip a young couple like that.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: You’re not gonna make the right decisions when you’re in an environment of fear.

Kourtney: Right.

Jim: And so, just like your dad said, did your husband give you that kind of confidence [inaudible 00:22:11] now let’s get married, let’s do the right thing.

Kourtney: We got married before Jack was born, and it wasn’t a shotgun type of wedding thing. It was really because he wanted to, uh, uh, to show me that, um, he was committed to me, and that he, he used the terms, he said, “When, I wanna be a family when Jack’s born, I just wanna be a family.” And uh-

Jim: Wow.

Kourtney: … so you know.

Jim: He sounds like an impressive young man.

Kourtney: He’s, he’s a great guy.

Jim: I look forward to meeting him someday.

Kourtney: (laughs).

Jim: Uh, Kevin we’re to that point, and I want you to speak to the parent who’s going through some kind of crisis with their adult child. They’re 20 something, most likely. Maybe they’re t- late teenager. What would you say to them, uh, to help them get through that time, and to cling to the Lord basically? With the things that you’ve learned, really, the question I was going to ask you, if you could roll the tape back, how would you have responded differently?

Kevin: Well, that’s one of the reasons I wanted to come in, and I, I love Kourtney’s story, and, and I’m a part of it, but the reason I wanted to come most is any father that could potentially be in the spot I was, I beg you understand that this is a gift from God where you can exhibit his kingdom’s principles to your child in a way that is real, in a way that is tangible, to encourage her or him, to strengthen him, to come alongside them, to cherish the fact that after stumbling they’re taking a path towards life. I beg you don’t make the mistakes I did. That’s the whole purpose of, of being here. Um, second of all, I think that I would have prayed now, knowing now to ask God to give me a glimpse of what I have now with Jack. Um-

Kourtney: Yeah [inaudible 00:23:52] buddy (laughs).

Kevin: He is, he is my b- buddy. I mean, I love him, and he calls me P. Pa, and we hang out all the time. He’s an absolute joy. He actually has helped my theology.

Jim: (laughs).

Kevin: Because every time I get a glimpse of him, his wonderment, his sense of joy, his happiness, he could step right from this planet into the kingdom of God right now and have no issue. He just reminds me-

Jim: Yeah.

Kourtney: We have nothing to [crosstalk 00:24:17].

Kevin: He reminds me that, that’s what we have to be like to enter the kingdom of heaven, and to think that I could have in any way played a part in having him not be here.

Jim: Yeah.

Kevin: It’s staggering.

Jim: Well, and I know people have already gone through this, you know, situation, and maybe they didn’t make the right decision.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And now they’re carrying that burden, so man, I wanna make sure you know Focus is here for you. We have counselors on either side of this. call us and get the help you need. Don’t hold back, and John will give those details in a moment. Kourtney, um, let’s go back to where we started. We talked about you having a desire to be a songwriter or a singer.

Kourtney: Yeah (laughs).

Jim: And, uh, you, you haven’t put that aside, have you?

Kourtney: No.

Jim: And you’ve done it. You-

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: … continue to write, and to do the things that were in the deepest part of your hearts. In fact, we have a clip of a song you wrote as a message to women considering abortion. I mean, talk about your passion being born out of your pain, and I want to play, uh, that as we close. Can we do that?

Kourtney: Yeah, that’s, uh, be awesome, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kourtney: (singing).

Jim: Wow, I hope you choose you. Boy, that applies to so many areas of our lives, doesn’t it?

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: And what courage you both have shown, and, uh (laughs) uh, people are gonna be touched. All I could say is help us save babies.

Kourtney: Yeah.

Jim: Uh, be a part of [crosstalk 00:26:20] it, be a part of the ministry. It’s $60 with Option Ultrasound to show the girl and perhaps her boyfriend, and maybe her mom and dad too-

Kourtney: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim: … what is growing inside her womb, and, uh, I don’t think we could say it any better than-

John: Yeah.

Jim: … we’ve said John.

John: Our Option Ultrasound program, um, we’re approaching 500,000 babies that have been saved through that effort. Uh, we do invite you to join us in that if you can, if you’re in a spot to make a $60 monthly pledge, that would be awesome. Uh, if you’re in a point of need, if you are not sure what’s gonna happen next, and you need some encouragement, uh, give us a call. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Uh, Kourtney and Kevin, man, thanks for being with us.

Kourtney: Yeah, thank you for having-

Kevin: Thank you.

Kourtney: … us. It’s a pleasure, mm-hmm (affirmative).

John: And thank you for joining us today for Focus on the Family. Uh, be sure to be back here next time as we hear how a simple act of kindness can change your life in a profound way.

Teaser:

Dr. Barry Corey: Kindness means you open yourself up, and you allow your imperfections to be exposed because that’s how you make yourself receivable.