Preview:
Justin Earley: You know, nobody thinks, “I wanna be the kinda dad the night who yells their kids to bed.” Like, nobody thinks that. But so many of us do that because of our instinctual responses to the mess and the chaos. And I found that fighting habit with habit was actually a grace.
End of Preview
John Fuller: Well, that’s Justin Earley. He’s our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. He’ll be sharing about how you can navigate the chaos of parenting young children. And, uh, your host is Focus president, Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: I just think all the parents just went, “Finally.” (Laughs)
John: Yeah. There’s an easy step here.
Jim: Navigate all the challenges.
John: Yeah, all of ’em.
Jim: I like that. Hopefully a few, but, uh, you know, it’s a great topic about how to, uh, you know, communicate with your young children particularly. And this is a children’s book we’re gonna talk about today, The Big Mess. It starts (laughs) right there. I’m sure a lot of moms and some dads are going, “Yeah, it feels like every day is the big mess.”
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, uh, you know, we don’t talk about children’s books too often, but they’re good things to be highlighting so that you know about them and can get them. And I was mentioning off mic that, you know, one of our favorites was Goodnight Moon. I think I read that over a thousand times to the (laughs) boys.
John: (Laughs).
Jim: Yet there’s so many good things to be learning. Also, we wanted to mention something that, uh, we’ve started not long ago called Age and Stage. And this is a perfect time to mention that to you. You can go up. It’s free. Just let us know the age of your children, and we will age that record over time up until 18, and we’ll send you something weekly to think about and to apply in your parenting, uh, as your child goes from one to five to 10 to all the way up to 18. And it’s a good little parenting tool, and I want more people to sign up for that. Again, it’s free, and you can pass that along to friends. If you’re grandparents, let your adult kids know about it.
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we wanna be part of the journey, and this is a terrific way for you to have, uh, insights on an ongoing basis. And we’ve got, uh, details about Age and Stage and also about, uh, the book Jim mentioned, The Big Mess, uh, at our website, and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And I mentioned our guest is Justin Earley. He has a law practice, a business law practice, and, uh, he and his wife Lauren have four young sons.
Jim: (Laughs).
John: So this is-
Justin: Right.
John: This book is out of that experience, I know.
Justin: Well-
Jim: Welcome.
Justin: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me back.
Jim: I totally get the idea of The Big Mess. I think we lived in it with two boys.
Justin: You’re right.
Jim: I can’t imagine four boys.
Justin: Yeah, it’s exponential.
Jim: Yeah.
John: You mentioned a lot about broken windows (laughs) and broken stuff-
Justin: That’s right.
John: From drywall holes.
Justin: That’s right.
John: Glad you’re a part of the club.
Justin: Well, I, I think I mentioned last time we moved into a new house about a year and a half ago, and by the end of, I think, seven months, we had seven holes in the drywall and one broken window. So-
John: (Laughs).
Justin: You know, one of the things that I think about a lot… And I actually wrote this as the inscription in my parenting book, Habits of the Household… that, you know, it’s better to raise whole children than to repair broken men and women.
John: Yeah.
Justin: And a lot of times when I think-
John: Mm.
Justin: About the mess in the household… And this is, goes for the, the conflict and the mess… you know, it’s helpful to remember that your real job here is relationships. Your real job is raising kids who have whole relationships.
Jim: Now, you don’t just come outta the womb knowing that.
Justin: No.
Jim: How did you learn that this was the priority? ‘Cause we dads, I mean, breaking stuff around the house, I mean, it’s spilling on the carpet. I remember meeting a man, it was, uh, uh, part of his testimony through the Resilient Kids program that we have in public schools-
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And he said, “I just didn’t know how to be a dad. When my daughter spilled the milk, all I knew to do was to spank her.”
Justin: Mm.
Jim: And going through the program, he said, “I, I realize that you show grace and forgiveness.”
Justin: Yes, yes. So this was my entry point to writing about parenting and is also the reason why I came to write The Big Mess. One night I’m putting my four boys to bed. And putting four boys to bed is exactly what you think it’s like, right?
Jim: (Laughs) Yes.
Justin: I mean, just total chaos. It’s a total mess. But that mess is always, uh, the guise of also the relational mess, because there’s bath water on the floor, I’m frustrated. I remember-
Jim: (Laughs).
Justin: Yelling my children to bed-
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: And then saying, “God loves you, and so do I.” Closed the door, like short prayer.
Jim: (Laughs) Right.
Justin: And I, I was standing in the hallway. I was an author. I had alr- and, and a lawyer already. I had written a book about spiritual habits and how they shape our, you know, spirituality. And I’m thinking I also have this other habit of yelling my kids to bed every night.
Jim: Hmm.
Justin: And that was the time where I started to s- think, oh my goodness, I’ve gotta get better at dealing with the relational mess in the house, ’cause otherwise I’m gonna become the dad who’s always trying to yell them into good behavior.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And guess what? That doesn’t work. And they’re gonna remember me as somebody who just cared about getting things in order rather than who I actually wanna be, and that is like Jesus, who comes into the mess of our relationships as we are and says, “I love you, and I’m gonna call you forward.”
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: And that was the beginning of writing about Habits of the Household, which is my parenting book. And The Big Mess is really an iteration of that for children to remind parents and kids that it’s in the mess of family life that we do the wonderful thing that we’re called to, and that is love God and love each other. So we gotta figure out how to do that in the mess, not outside of it.
Jim: Let me ask you this, because, um, it’s really the important point, uh, as dads and moms too. A lot of moms are listening and, uh, this is a mom and dad show.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But the, the idea of kind of rethinking that, there are things that we learn as children-
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That we carry forward. It’s in our DNA literally. And, uh, and then we have behavioral things that, uh, we experienced as children. So that wiring-
Justin: Yes.
Jim: When we get older and our kids are a little outta sorts or they’re having fun and giggling when they shouldn’t be giggling-
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And throwing things when they shouldn’t be throwing things.
Justin: Right, right, right.
Jim: And we just spark up.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: We’re like, “Stop that.”
Justin: Yes.
Jim: “Knock that off. Don’t do that now.”
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then you walk away from that going, why was I so hard-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: About that stuff?
Justin: Yes.
Jim: How do you, how do you replace that with thoughtful adult thinking?
John: Mm.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: In the moment, daddy thinking-
Justin: Right.
Jim: To be able to deescalate that and just say, “I’m glad you guys are having fun. Can we now think about going to bed?”
Justin: There you, there you go. So this-
Jim: Okay.
Justin: This is sort of the center-
Jim: (Laughs)
Justin: Uh, it’s practiced. This was the center idea of Habits of the Household and why I titled my parenting book Habits of the Household, because I found in parenting in these moments that I was unable to think my way out of a problem that I didn’t think my way into. I reacted to these things out of instinct. It w- it was habit.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: That, that I barked at my kids and that I, I d- You know, nobody thinks I wanna be the kind of dad the night who yells their kids to bed. Like nobody thinks that. But so many of us do that because of our instinctual responses to the mess and the chaos.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And I found that fighting habit with habit was actually a grace where the, the Lord, you sort of invited me to see that, hey, you can actually plan out ahead of times here’s some ways I might respond to this. And one of the huge ones for me… And I, I recommend this with, um, parents trying to help their kids reconcile and moments of discipline… huge habit that helped me is the habit of pause prayers, where, so before I go into, oh, I need to address this moment, you know, discipline or something happens, just very briefly, very… And I’m talking very, very briefly… just pray.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: Just literally say, “Lord, help me be more like you than me in this moment.”
Jim: (Laughs).
Justin: Okay? And so-
Jim: It’s a good start.
Justin: Yeah. And I mean, it sort of seems basic like, oh, pray, right? Well, that’s because prayer is powerful. But on the other hand, it’s, you’re fighting habit with habit, ’cause you’re practicing a new way of interrupting your old habit and then going through a do a different route. And so this is addressing the way God made your body and brain to say I wanna be somebody different in moments of discipline. And pause prayers have been enormously helpful for me.
Jim: Yeah. You know, in that regard, temperaments of children are very different. And our two sons were very different. I’m sure you see that with your four sons.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: I had the hardcore guy who could not be told anything.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then I had the really tender guy that if you looked at ’em wrong, oop-
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: He melted.
Justin: That’s right (laughs).
Jim: And, uh, and the point I wanna make is a serious one, because I think a tender-hearted child’s shame is so easily-
Justin: Mm, yes.
Jim: Applied to themselves.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: When, when you’re correcting their behavior, you have to go out of your way-
Justin: Yes.
Jim: To say, “Now, I’m not speaking about who you are and how God made you. It’s just what you did-
Justin: That’s so good. Yeah.
Jim: “Was unacceptable.” But if you miss that, that child, you could heap on-
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Uh, so much shame. And then by the time they’re a teenager, if as a parent you haven’t corrected that, you’re gonna have a problem.
Justin: You… Yeah. And I, I think about that a lot, Jim, and I love that Jesus’ way of life, his grace and truth, helps us address both of those, ’cause I, when I pray a short pause prayer, “Lord, help me be more like you than me in this moment,” what I’m thinking in my head is let me to my kids be both the authority… You know, Jesus is too good to let us go on in our best behavior. Like He’s gonna protect us and others. But He does it, that truth with grace.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: You know, He comes out not to shame you, not to condemn you, but to reconcile you back to Himself. And this is a lot of what I think about with both discipline in the household and, and helping kids do it. And the, The Big Mess is all about that. Actually, it’s about sibling reconciliation in the mess of sibling life, because if you’re like me, and I think most people are, your kids fight all the time. And you’ve gotta figure out how to help them say, hey, the mark of a Christian family is not that we don’t fight. Everybody fights. The mark of a Christian family is that we actually figure out a way to reconcile-
Jim: Mm.
Justin: Not to hurt each other, not to shame each other, but to reconcile.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: And that is the great challenge, I think, for Christian families.
Jim: Um, s- creating moments… And again, I’m not… you know, everybody can create these moments, but you need to be mindful of it.
Justin: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I think as a dad, I was pretty mindful about trying to be on top of those moments. You never know when they’re going to spark. It could be on the way to a camping trip. It c-
Justin: Yep. Yeah.
Jim: You know, whatever. And I used to try to-
Justin: For us it’s like hourly, you know?
Jim: I… Yeah. I used to-
Justin: It’s all-
Jim: I used to talk to Jean about that because she was much more into formal devotional time with the kids. Start at 7:00. Go to 7:30-
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: You know. And that’s good. You need structure. Um, I was more like in the car-
Justin: Yes.
Jim: Talking stories.
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: Um, but in that regard, you and your son, you had a story, uh, about, uh, playing the guitar-
Justin: Yes.
Jim: And having a chit-chat.
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: But how did that go down? How old was your son when this happened?
Justin: Well, this is a recent story actually.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: So he’s 13 when that happened.
Jim: 13? Yeah.
Justin: And I think about that because I’ve thought a lot about those structured times in the younger years, you know, how you-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Justin: Structure moments to come out of family devotion or to come-
Jim: Right.
Justin: Outta nighttime prayer. And so, so helpful-
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: For the younger years.
Jim: Both are good.
Justin: Oh, oh, so wonderful. But as kids get older… And most parents intuit this… it becomes a little more free-form. What you’re trying to do… And I th- This is what I think about a lot right… I’m learning about it right now, is structuring space instead of structuring content.
Jim: Mm.
Justin: So in the younger years… And, uh, we still do this ’cause I still got a six and a eight-year-old boy in the house, we’re structuring a bedtime liturgy, a bedtime prayer. You know, and everybody’s doing a b- family devotion once a week, as messy as they are. But recently, I’m finding with my 13-year-old, if I really want him to engage, what I need to do is structure space and time for him to engage. So recently I, I was trying to pull some information out of him ’cause I heard from another dad that something had happened at school, and I respect privacy by not saying what that was (laughs). You know, it wasn’t too bad.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: But I was like I wanna talk to him about this. And, um, I asked him, you know, at family dinner, you know, “Hey, did anything happen at school today?” He goes, “Nothing.” And then-
Jim: No.
Justin: That night I was like, “Hey, you wanna stay up late and play the guitar together?” And he was like, “Yeah.” So w- he’s learning, and I, I play at an amateur level. And we’re both just like plucking and trading ideas. And about half an hour in, he kind of like rests his hand on the guitar, and he says, “Hey, can I tell you something?” And I was like, “Sure.” And we talked about it.
Jim: Mm.
Justin: It was exactly what I was hoping. And, you know, every time doesn’t work this well, right? (Laughs) But, but structuring space where we could be kind of side-to-side looking at something else… And, and this could be a walk or a hike or throwing the-
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: Baseball or football, playing guitar. But I find with the older boys structuring space is where they, they get pulled out into those intentional moments of conversation.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And I think that’s really good. And, uh, you know, unfortunately, I don’t know that we as parents appreciate differences that way. And I, I think for spouses we need to appreciate God bringing you together as a couple, then you have children.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: And use both of your strengths-
Justin: Yes.
Jim: To do the things that really help your children to thrive.
Justin: Ab- And I think we see both reflected in the life of Jesus. I mean, He walks with His disciples and talks and talks and talks. And then He also sometimes just teaches.
Jim: Right (laughs).
Justin: And both are super valid ways. Um, but you, you gotta be a student of your child as a parent.
John: Yeah. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And, uh, our guest today is Justin Earley. Uh, obviously, he’s got a passion to parent well. And, uh, we’re not there yet, any of us. So-
Jim: (Laughs).
John: Uh, he’s sharing some of the principles that, uh, come from his parenting book and that are reflected in this children’s book, The Big Mess: A Deliciously Funny Story of Siblings Learning to Get Along. We’ve got details about this book. And then we mentioned Age and Stage, our new, uh, effort to equip you as a mom and dad. Uh, find out more at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Um, the children’s book, The Big Mess, I think lends itself to solving sibling rivalry.
John: (Laughs).
Justin: Yeah, yeah.
Jim: I mean, you got the mouse and the moose.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: And they’re going at it.
Justin: Yeah, they’re fine.
Jim: And the, the mouse is creating these wonderful, delicious treats, and the, the other child keeps-
Justin: Yep.
Jim: Knocking ’em over-
Justin: Yep, yep.
Jim: And knocking ’em down. Speak to that idea of how to help bring harmony into sibling rivalry.
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: You know, that’s typical. And in our case, uh, we were really blessed. Our boys, they had their normal f- you know, skirmishes, but they’re pretty limited. And they, they now would say they’re one another’s best friends.
Justin: Oh.
Jim: That’s a good thing.
Justin: It’s a beautiful thing.
Jim: Um, but, uh, you have to be mindful of it.
Justin: Oh yes. And I mean, this is on the first couple pages of the Bible, right, that siblings don’t necessarily get along.
Jim: Yeah, no kidding (laughs).
Justin: And it can go bad. It is no guarantee that families become friends, right? And a lot of what I’m trying to do in The Big Mess is give people just a little way to think about sibling reconciliation and… ’cause I think stories, Jim, are so important. You know, you mentioned Goodnight Moon earlier, because many of us read that book thousands of times.
Jim: Yeah (laughs).
Justin: And there’s many other children’s book that you read over and over, and you internalize them, right? And stories are powerful. And I wanted to give children and parents a little story of reconciliation so that we could both internalize that, hey, that’s what families do, right?
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: Again, the mark of a Christian family is not that you don’t have conflict. It’s that you reconcile. And I want kids to see that too. And so The Big Mess is just about a big brother mouse who makes fantastic dessert creations. Think about your child who makes the Lego creations or does all the projects. You know, y- most families have one child who gets into it. And then most families also have another child who just seems to accidentally mess everything up all the time, sometimes intentionally, maybe. And that’s Moose. He comes in and in increasingly fantastic blunders… ‘Cause remember we’re trying to keep children’s attention, right? So we have desserts in this book that are crashing and smashing. Moose just accidentally messes up all of Mouse’s creations. And the turn in the book comes when after Mouse gets really, really frustrated with his brother and tries to avoid him, you know, he finally decides, you know what, what if I made something that was made to be smashed? And he invites his younger brother into his creation by saying, “Come make a mess with me.” Okay? And so this is, again, supposed to be really fun with kids. So they build a huge ice cream sundae that then they launch Moose out of a slingshot. I mean, you know, we’re getting fantastic here. He lands on a seesaw, explodes the ice cream sundae, and the whole neighborhood catches ice cream, you know, banana splits raining down from the sky. So-
Jim: I’d like to give that a try (laughs).
Justin: You know, we actually have at home.
Jim: Are you serious?
Justin: For the launch party for this book.
Jim: That’s great.
Justin: We did a launch party where we launched desserts. And guess what? Kids love it.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: And so… And here’s the thing. That’s an art of parenting, right?
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: To learn… You’re gonna engage with stories so often with your kids and to learn to ask them a question about, “Hey, how does this teach us about God?”, is one of the great arts of being parent.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: No, it’s so true. I think the other thing, uh, that I noticed, and John maybe you noticed this too, like this is so simple, but how many times we said, “Please. Say please. Say thank you.”
John: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jim: Please and thank you. Please and thank you. That too was probably a thousand or more times that we would’ve reminded ’em-
Justin: Right.
Jim: “Say please.”
Justin: Right.
Jim: And it starts at, you know, two.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: And you’re asking them to acknowledge that. And you think, you know, does it go in one ear and out the other-
Justin: Mm. Right (laughs).
Jim: And then somewhere-
Justin: Somewhere along the line. That’s right.
Jim: Along that line, typically late teens (laughs)-
Justin: (Laughs).
Jim: It starts to appear-
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: Like a flower blossoming in their heart.
Justin: Right.
Jim: And you catch them saying please or thank you to-
Justin: Yes.
Jim: Somebody. And you’re going, oh, they were listening.
Justin: Yes.
Jim: It’s kinda like that.
Justin: It is. And this is why I love talking about the spirituality of habit, because I think it’s so helpful for parents to be reminded that those mundane habits that you think are just ordinary and don’t matter are extraordinary seeds of spiritual teaching.
Jim: And don’t grow weary in it.
Justin: No.
Jim: I mean, and don’t-
Justin: Don’t grow weary. Yeah.
Jim: Bemoan it. Like, “How many times have I told you?” That really is counterproductive. Just say it again.
Justin: That’s, that’s right.
Jim: You know, “Don’t forget to say thank you.”
Justin: And I, I had a moment with my kids actually recently.
Jim: Yeah (laughs).
Justin: This was just, I think, last week where they were, they were getting frustrated or fighting about something. I honestly can’t remember. And I said, “Hey, why don’t you invite your little brother into it? You know, make it fun for him.” And he literally looks at me and goes like, “Oh, like Mouse in the story.”
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: And I was like, oh my gosh. Like it worked with my kids. You know, you… habits and stories go together, ’cause we read them over and over. We do them over and over. And when you’re reading kids a story over and over, it might take a while-
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: But they’ll start to connect. And that, and that’s why I wanted to give parents a good, fun story that their kids would say, “Read it again.” (Laughs).
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: Because I wanna give them internalized little heroes of reconciliation, like little examples of, oh, I could be like that.
Jim: Yeah. It’s so, so good. Uh, you encourage your boys to hug each other after an argument. Now, that’s good too.
Justin: Uh, yeah. Okay.
Jim: That’s like saying please and-
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: Thank you and sorry.
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: So how does that work?
Justin: Most families, and I think this is really healthy, have a way of saying, you know, you need to apologize. You need to forgive. And I, I really think that’s wonderful. I think you should. But I’ve found that often our kids after saying, “I’m sorry, I forgive you,” they were looking at the ground looking frustrated, you know, grr, and I, I thought we’re not reconciled here. So we started doing this thing where we said, “Hey, all right, now you need to do a brother’s hug.” And that’s where they had to hold onto each other for as long as it takes until, not one, but both of them started smiling. And very quickly… And this is for younger kids, it work, works the best… I noticed that it really helped them-
Jim: Mm.
Justin: Because, uh, about four or five seconds of holding onto each other, they started to get playful again. They started to wiggle. They started to wrestle. And I, I actually subsequently found out that holding onto another human for a hug, I think, about eight seconds, releases these brain hormones that encourage bonding.
Jim: Wow. Yeah.
Justin: I mean-
Jim: Isn’t that interesting?
Justin: I mean, there’s a lot… You know, God made the body, right? I didn’t know this at the time, but it was a way for them to embody reconciliation. And it helped us so much. And it still does, because we need embodied ways to come back together in the family-
Jim: Mm.
Justin: Embodied ways to enact what Jesus has done for us, and that is reconcile us back into his love.
John: Yeah. Along those lines, Justin, um, and I’m so glad you’re talking about this because we had too many situations where we would just tell the kids, “Work it out.” Right? I mean, so (laughs)-
Justin: Yeah (laughs).
John: We wanna demonstrate-
Jim: You were busy (laughs).
John: Well, yeah. When you get a certain number, there is chaos.
Jim: Yeah.
John: And so modeling grace, talk about the importance of modeling grace-
Justin: Mm-hmm.
John: Uh, because I, I think if I were to d- have a redo, I would start with a little more grace for myself. As you said, Jim-
Jim: Yeah.
John: It’s just too much for one person to do well, but also I’d want to help my kids do what you were describing there.
Justin: Yeah.
John: Hug each other and give each other some slack.
Justin: Well, uh, you know, and I think about this a lot. I talk to parents about it a lot. So I, I’ll give you three quick habits that I actually think are f- incredibly helpful here. One is the pause prayers that I mentioned earlier. For you to pause and pray is extraordinarily different. It’s just a different way to approach it, and it helps you re-encounter Jesus’ grace before you go into that moment, okay? Then for you to help your children do some liturgy of reconciliation, figure out what helps them show grace to each other. You know, it might be a brother’s hug, or it might be a walk or something else, but I do think there’s something to be said… This would be the third one… of helping them learn to work it out. So think about this as they get older. I often tell parents now if they’re, you know, let’s say four, five, six, they’re getting older, and you hear a fight breaking out, just wait a minute, ’cause you’ve been trained by the younger years to run in and intervene-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And that’s, that’s good and fine. But one of the things that we wanna do is train in kid, our kids. Teach them to start to learn to negotiate conflict, negotiate compromise, and forgive each other, right? And they actually need space to do that. So one of the things I do with my boys now, and I, I have to encourage my wife sometimes, I mean, n- “Wait. Give ’em, Give ’em a second.”
Jim: (Laughs).
Justin: “They might work this out.” And, you know, and if it’s going badly, if it’s going towards, you know, a fist fight, then like, obviously I’m gonna run (laughs) and break it up.
Jim: (Laughs).
Justin: But if it’s, if it’s… And this, you know-
Jim: Obviously, it happens (laughs).
Justin: Um, but, but if I think no, they’re learning to work it out now, I might come up and say, “Hey, boys, I’m gonna give you three minutes. I’m gonna come back, and I wanna hear the fair, gracious compromise that you came to.” And I’ll look at the older one, and I’ll say, “It has to be fair (laughs).” And then I’ll, I’ll come back in three minutes, and I’ll say, “You know, if you didn’t figure out, I’m gonna have to take the toy away,” or something. And I think it dignifies them with the-
Jim: Oh yeah.
Justin: Ability to say, all right, I’m gonna figure out how to solve this and helps them learn that ,to give grace to the other, ’cause somebody’s gonna have to give, and somebody’s gonna have to take. And so that’s just a little way of helping them learn to do it. And obviously, this is parenting, right? You’re helping them along. You’re walking them towards it.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Justin: And you know, if you’re not modeling it, it’s not gonna go well.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: So this could be a whole nother conversation, but if you wanna think really hard about this, think about what they see when they’re looking at you and your spouse.
Jim: Mm.
Justin: You know, when I’m talking to Lauren, that, probably the most important thing that I’m gonna teach them about negotiating conflict compromise and being gracious is how I talked to Lauren. So I think a lot about that.
Jim: Mm.
Justin: You know, when I’m talking in front of them or not, they’re watching that.
Jim: Yeah, that’s good. That’s convicting.
John: It is.
Jim: (Laughs).
John: It is (laughs).
Jim: But it is good. And, uh, I’m thinking of the parent right at the end here, Justin, who is saying, uh… And again, we can use these as excuses, but you’re an attorney. You’re busy. You’re doing things. You’re writing children’s books.
Justin: Yeah (laughs).
Jim: I mean, so you’ve got your plate full-
Justin: Mm.
Jim: But you’ve got your eye on the right ball. So in that regard, how do we prioritize so we don’t fall back on that excuse-
Justin: Mm.
Jim: To say I’m so busy, I don’t have time to do all those things or be that mindful about it?
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: I think we could just do it naturally. The kids will turn out okay.
Justin: Yeah.
Jim: You, you know what I’m saying here.
Justin: Yeah. I, I would remind people of just two principles. And, and one is to do nothing is to do everything. So that means if you’re just saying I’m too busy, I can’t do that, let’s let it happen naturally, well, you’re saying I’m not going to do anything, which means you’re basically gonna submit to the modern American culture of discipleship, which is to disciple you in this busy, chaotic, anxious churn of activity and-
Jim: Screen time.
Justin: Not… And screen time and not paying attention.
Jim: Yeah.
Justin: And so to say like I don’t have time for this is to say that you do have time for someone else’s discipleship. So I, I would admit that, you know, I, I’m a “busy,” stressed (laughs) person. I mean, ki run a law practice and write books, and I came out this through failure, right?
Jim: Mm.
Justin: So it was by realizing that, oh my gosh, if I do nothing, I’m gonna end up the angry, anxious dad who’s yelling his kids to bed at night. And so the corollary principle to that is that Jesus’s burden is light. And th- this is such good news. To say, oh my goodness, I’m gonna take all these ordinary moments and let Jesus disciple them is not to say I’m gonna take on a million new tasks that are gonna wear me out. No, it’s the opposite. It’s to say you’re gonna throw off the a million old tasks that the world is asking of you and say I’m gonna take on the light yoke of Jesus and do a couple things intentionally. And guess what? The reason we call it the light yoke, the easy burden, is because He’s under it with you.
Jim: Mm.-hmm.
Justin: You know, He’s helping you. And I just wanna point out that you’re under somebody’s yoke. You’re under somebody’s way of discipleship. So to do nothing is to submit to that. But to do something, it could just be a little thing, like a little bedtime liturgy, little sibling reconciliation liturgy, reading them a kid’s book at night, is to start to come under the easy, intentional yoke of Jesus. And there is not only love and reconciliation and grace, but it’s also the lightness of walking with Him. And that’s way better than doing nothing.
Jim: That is so good. Man, I could’ve used that a few years ago.
John: Yeah.
Justin: (Laughs).
Jim: But, uh, I can apply it today.
John: Mm-hmm.
Justin: It’s never too late.
John: Never too late.
Jim: It’s never too late.
John: It’s never too late. People say, “Oh, the ship has sailed. You know, I’ve already parented my kids.” I got a friend in the Navy, and he tells me that when ships sail and they have a big problem, they turn around and go back to harbor.
Jim: (Laughs).
John: So (laughs) it’s never too late to do something rather than nothing.
Jim: That’s a safe way to go.
John: Mm.
Jim: Hey, Justin, thanks again for being with us. This is great. And I, you know, talking about a kid’s book for 30 minutes, uh, it, it worked out.
Justin: It should be fun.
Jim: There’s a lot more in this-
Justin: Yeah (laughs).
Jim: But The Big Mess: A Deliciously Funny Story of Siblings Learning to Get Along, it’s a free guide on how to throw dessert around your house. It’s awesome. (Laughs)
Justin: There you go. Yeah, your, your kid… I guarantee you your kids will say, “I love it. Read it again.”
Jim: “Read it again.”
Justin: They, they might make a mess from it, but that’s okay. (Laughs).
Jim: Yeah, “Read it again, Dad.” Uh, anyway, uh, when you make a donation of any amount, we’ll send you a copy as our way of saying thanks. Uh, we are a nonprofit ministry, and your gifts allow us to keep serving many more families. By partnering with us in ministry, you help make biblical resources available for parents to navigate the culture and raise Christ-centered kids. And right now, only about 1% of listeners give financially to the ministry. Can you imagine the kingdom impact that we would have if just 2% of the listeners would support the ministry? One of the great free resources we have for parents is the Practice Makes Parent podcast. Dr. Danny Huerta and Rebecca St. James host Parenting Experts every week. They’ll help you adapt to parenting in the changing culture and offer real-life strategies for every stage of parenthood.
John: Yeah, it’s a great podcast, and you can find Practice Makes Parent and a way to share it with your friends at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And if you’ve benefited from the conversation today, or any of our free resources like the podcast and articles perhaps on our website, please consider giving back to Focus. When you make a generous contribution, you help us to keep making our resources available to you and others who have a need. Donate today, and, uh, request your copy of the book from Justin Earley, The Big Mess: A Deliciously Funny Story of Siblings Learning to Get Along. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Or you’ll find details to donate and get that book and other resources at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And next time we’ll hear from Eliza Huie. She’ll share from her experience as a counselor about understanding and navigating trauma with the people around you.
Eliza Huie: Instead of thinking, “Well, they just have anger issues,” what if we got curious and asked-
Jim: That’s really good.
Eliza: “What makes that so difficult? What makes that situation difficult for you?”
John: Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
