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John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we’re returning to a powerful story of a woman’s journey of searching for love in all the wrong places, and then living with the tragic consequences of multiple abortions. Now this is an important conversation, uh, and we need to have it, but it’s not suited for younger children, so we do recommend you address their attention elsewhere. And uh, this clip illustrates some of the challenges that our guest faced.
Cynthia Wenz: This is where the Holy Spirit was with me in my deepest, darkest moments, because I said, “What does this mean?” She looked at me and she said, “We probably didn’t get everything.” What does that even mean? And my arm went up and I said, “Can I see what’s inside of me?” And she flips that screen around, and you see a little tiny baby just moving, wiggling, wiggling, and you see a deflated sac on the right side of the screen, and I had been carrying twins.
Jim Daly: John, the story we heard last time from Cynthia Wenz was so heartbreaking, uh, she stared out as a happy, carefree young girl in a loving family, only to find herself a few years later trapped in a destructive cycle of underage drinking, drugs and promiscuity. Cynthia had a hunger for God instilled in her by a loving grandmother, but she couldn’t get off the path of chasing one bad relationship after another, and all of her risky behaviors that ultimately led to three abortions. But God never gave up on Cynthia, like he never gives up on you or me. And His saving grace protected her from complete destruction and death many times over. And we’re going to hear the amazing rest of the story today. If you missed the conversation last time, get the CD, get the smart phone app, uh, you can go right to Focus on the Family’s website to listen to that.
John: Yeah, and of course, we’re also available on YouTube, and um, we did mention last time that Cynthia is an author, speaker and pro-life advocate. Uh, she started Healed for Life Ministries, which supports women and their relationships, bringing help and hope to the post abortive community, and uh, she’s captured her story in the book Healed for Life, A Story of Redemption. And we’ll recommend you check that out at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.
Jim: Cynthia, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Uh, it was a difficult listen yesterday. I mean, uh, we went through the fact that your family struggled, your mom and dad were struggling when you were 12, 13, 14, you kinda wandered off. You became that prodigal daughter, right?
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: And it led to promiscuity, relationships, pregnancies at 15, and again, and again, with a third pregnancy. Um, we did end with the fact that your son, Roman, was a twin, and you had, uh, done an abortion at 29, and the one twin was taken. You didn’t realize and the doctor didn’t realize there was another baby, and that baby you gave life to, I mean, that’s Roman, your son now, who is a- a fully grown man, and married and has three children of his own. Let me ask you, uh, really for that woman who maybe had those same kinds of struggles, just all the way, your relationship with the Lord. I mean, I accepted the Lord at 15, and I was in a broken home situation. And it took a while to understand what that meant to really give your life to the Lord. I was probably 21, 22 when it really- when the Spirit really got a hold of me, if I could put it that way.
Cynthia: Yeah.
Jim: And there was bouncing around. So I totally relate to what you’re saying. But describe your relationship with the Lord through your 20s, ’cause your- you’re still partying, being promiscuous.
Cynthia: Mm-hmm –
Jim: And God is still leaning into you, right?
Cynthia: Mm-hmm –
Jim: Listening to you. I think it’s helpful for people to hear that conflict, ’cause it’s so real.
Cynthia: It’s so real.
Jim: It’s like you’re out Friday night, and you’re going to church on Sunday. Lord forgive me for what I just did. And then you-
Cynthia: That’s exactly what it is.
Jim: And then you do it again the next weekend.
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: But kind of go through that. What God was saying to your heart, and how you were getting straight in your soul?
Cynthia: Yeah, you kind of have Jesus as your- you know, your friend over here, but then you have- I don’t think you’re consciously go, “Well, I’m sinning on Friday and I’m redeeming on Sunday.” I think you’re living life in the world.
Jim: It’s conflict. It’s not celebration.
Cynthia: It’s conflict. You’re in the world.
Jim: Right.
Cynthia: And you’re not supposed to be of it, and you know you’re not supposed to be of it, but you’re in it. And this is where, you know, counseling women, you can’t deny the consequences and you can’t deny what she faces when she goes back out there.
Jim: Huh –
Cynthia: And so how do you reconcile the two? How do you become plumb with the truth of God and who He is? And so for me, I think God was so kind in my walk, it took a life change in the form of a baby surviving an abortion, being that dramatic for me to go, “God is real, ’cause there’s no explanation for how Roman can survive the womb.”
Jim: Mm-hmm –
John: Yeah.
Cynthia: And I was so far gone that He had to redeem me by having me recognize life, and then choose it.
Jim: Well in fact, I want to push the story forward in that regard, because here you are, you’re- you- you’re not married. You’re a single parent mom.
Cynthia: No. Oh my goodness. On my own going through this.
Jim: And you do take Roman home, and now you being to wrestle with the Lord, right? Like, “Lord, I want a husband. I need a husband. My son needs a husband.”
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: I could see that feistiness in you, the shaking of the fists, like, “God, you wouldn’t have done this for this reason, don’t leave me hanging out here.” Am I filling in the blanks adequately? (laughs)
Cynthia: You’re nailing it. (laughs)
Jim: But I mean, describe that. Now you’re in this struggle with the Lord for more.
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: “Lord, I’m trusting You.”
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: “I get- I said yes to Roman, now where’s your, yes?”
Cynthia: I was a little feisty, because here I am still, you know, maybe puffing a cigarette now and again, and I remember saying, “Okay, I chose life,” and I remember with that sassiness saying, “I’m ready for my tall, dark, handsome, good Christian millionaire, and Lord I’m asking that he’s single, and that he adores You, he loves You. But that he loves Roman first and then he loves me,” because in my mind, I was tainted goods now.
Jim: Mm-hmm –
Cynthia: I was tainted goods. And I said, “So I’m gonna quit dating until you bring him to me.” And I remember going back into my office and coming back out and going, “And I’d like 3.4 karats or better on my ring, because I’m 34 and You’ve made me wait.”
Jim: Wow.
John: Huh.
Cynthia: I wouldn’t pray that way today. But God in His grace brought me a man that didn’t look anything like what I prayed for. And the Lord simply and gently said, “He’s taller than you, his hair used to be dark,” my husband kind of looks like Richard Gear. Silver hair. Blue eyes.
Jim: (laughs)
Cynthia: He said, “He’s handsome because he’s, my son. He’s a good man.”
John: Hmm –
Cynthia: And he adores me.
Jim: Wow.
Cynthia: And I truly believe that was a piece of God Himself tossed down. I don’t- I don’t recommend missionary dating, but when God brings in a healing agent in the form of a husband and a marriage, it is exponentially greater than you can think or imagine.
Jim: You know I’m thinking there’s so many audience thoughts I’m- I’m trying to process right now.
Cynthia: It’s a lot.
Jim: And that woman-
Cynthia: It’s a big story.
Jim: Well, that woman where she’s where you were at, I mean maybe she did say yes to keeping her child and God bless you for that. And she’s now at that stage saying, “Lord, where’s my husband?”
Cynthia: Yeah.
Jim: And you know, you start laying out those fleeces, and you start to describe what you want.
Cynthia: Yes. (laughs)
Jim: I mean, you know, I- I’m- that’s all fair. Chris comes into your life. How did you talk about what has happened to you? How did he respond? You had to be somewhat afraid about, “Will this man really love me if he really knows me?”
Cynthia: Absolutely.
Jim: I mean that’s every human being. Will she or he love me if he or she really knows me?
Cynthia: Right.
Jim: That’s one of the core problems in marriage.
Cynthia: Right.
Jim: We don’t feel we can be that honest. So how- describe it for us. How did Chris and you talk about all that junk?
Cynthia: The first eight years were terrible. Okay, he’ll not like appreciate that I said that. We had a good marriage, but he had a lot of hurdles to overcome with me, because I was unredeemed at the time. I was living out all the demons in my life. Um, the insecurity and sexual behavior, because I had only known it in ways that were not God ordained. So coming into the intimacy of marriage, he was kind and loving and gentle and patient and long suffering and enduring, and really helped me see when I would go, “No, no, no,” he would say, “A husband and a wife, this is-” and he would refer to scripture with love and gentleness. So we’d get to the eighth year of our marriage, and he recognizes, “Oh, you’re still broken up.” He recognizes the trigger points were the abortions and the pain that entered in and the trauma, quite frankly.
Jim: Mmm –
Cynthia: And he was the one that recommended, “Hey, some of our spinning students that we work out with are on the board of the local pregnancy center. Why don’t you go serve.”? And he’s referencing John 15 now, um, “Give your healing away,” ’cause he was a worship leader, we’re in the church now. I’m a worship leader’s wife hiding the pain, pushing aside the sin, and I go volunteer to live it out, hopefully make my joy complete, and of course, enter post abortion healing where the real healing began.
John: Hmm. Well, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Cynthia Wenz, uh, what a powerful uh, testimony she has.
Jim: Mm-hmm –
John: And she’s captured so much of it in her memoir, Healed for Life, A Story of Redemption. And we’ll encourage you to look for a copy of that at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or call 1-800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY.
Jim: Let’s move into um, how that kind of catapulted you into committing to the pro-life movement. I mean, you are the poster child for this movement in so many ways, right? I mean people, a lot of people have incredible stories. You have like, super-duper incredible story here. And God’s giving you that testimony. It belongs to him. You had to live it out.
Cynthia: Yes, it does.
Jim: But it’s His story.
Cynthia: That’s exactly right.
Jim: And in that context, then, what were your next steps? You raise Roman, you and Chris get things together, God’s blessing you. You stay together. That right there’s a blessing. Chris is in that audience; I can see him.
Cynthia: Mm-hmm –
Jim: So it’s happening. It’s working. You’re both smiling. How many years later? How long have you been married?
Cynthia: 20.
Jim: 20. So speak to getting engaged now, in the pro-life movement. What was that, uh, entry point, and why? Go back to your pain.
Cynthia: He recommended I go volunteer at the pregnancy center and give my joy away to make my joy complete.
Jim: Meaning Chris.
Cynthia: My husband.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: And I began serving and the wise, young, 24-year-old executive director said, “If you’re post abortive, you need to go through post abortion healing.” I did. I went in a very proud worship leader’s wife, and about six weeks into the 10-week program, broke. The Lord said, “This is for you.”
Jim: Wow.
Cynthia: And I began to reconcile that first pregnancy. And then I went through it a second time as a volunteer and reconciled the second pregnancy. And then I went through post abortion healing a third time, and that’s where I was able to look in the mirror for the first time and see myself not as a shamed woman, but as a simple woman of God with some years on that is loved and treasured, where God was present the whole way and grieving with me.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: I later went on to run the pregnancy center for five years. We took it from a, you know, just a time in ’08 and ’09 where the economy had fallen out. We had a negative budget, and we went into a multi-million-dollar budget.
Jim: Wow.
Cynthia: We were just under two million as a pregnancy center with three locations.
Jim: I think- I’m smiling ’cause I think it’d be hard to say no to you as a donor.
John: (laughs) Yeah.
Jim: Can you just imagine.
John: Yeah.
Jim: You come in, “Hey, can you have- you have 10,000 dollars?” Well uh, and you give that eyeball stare. (laughs)
Cynthia: That’s interesting.
Jim: Okay, you want 20?
Cynthia: Yeah, because now as I go out and speak at pregnancy centers, the thing that I say is, “Let me help you with your fundraising.”
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: Because the money is God’s kingdom, and it’s easy to bring in for the right reasons, and life is always the right reason.
Jim: Wow, no kidding.
Cynthia: So-
Jim: I mean this is such a right thing to support with everybody.
Cynthia: Everybody.
Jim: And it’s so good. Let me ask you with Roman. Roman’s an adult, he’s married, he has children now. Have you ever sat down with him and talked about him being the survivor?
Cynthia: So the Lord did that for me, because as I began running- running the pregnancy center, my story got out there, and you’re thinking to yourself, how do I tell my kid, “I aborted you?” He’s gonna hate me. And so I was on the phone at my home, counseling a woman who had just gone through a miscarriage, and we were talking about reproductive grief and loss, and as I as counseling her and praying her and recommending the Christy Nockels song about, you know, I’ll see you in heaven.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: It’s a beautiful song. Glory Baby. And um, Roman overheard the whole thing.
Jim: Uh.
Cynthia: And he walked into my room, he was eight years old at the time, and he began asking me questions. And I could just feel a gentle nudge in the Spirit to just answer, if I had to say anything.
Jim: Hm.
Cynthia: “Mom, did you-” ’cause I was telling her my story. “Did you- did I have a twin?” Yes. “Is- where is my twin?” In heaven. “Did you want me?”
Jim: Wow.
Cynthia: Roman, you’re the best gift God has ever given me. And he went, “Okay.” That was it.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: And then he began speaking on shows with me, and then he went- we went to the Capitol together and he wrote chapter 13 of my book. His birthday’s May 13th, so in- in the divinity- now he’s married and focused on family and children, and he’s-
Jim: (laughs)
Cynthia: He’s in his own swirl, but he embraces and appreciates the miraculous nature of the story.
Jim: Looking at that, and that’s one aspect of the book, you talk about going to the state capitol in Texas and testifying. Describe all of that, the swirl of that as you described it.
Cynthia: I think the pregnancy center and the growth of it, um, brought some attention to the story and the miraculous nature of it. One of the right to life groups called and said, “Hey, would you testify in the capitol?” And I was like, oh, no thank you.
Jim: Yeah right. (laughs)
Cynthia: And that was that. And uh, (laughs) Went into my prayer closet, kneeling, and um, I said, “Lord, no, come on, we’re saving lives. So the pregnancy center’s enough.” And i was like, I don’t wanna do this. And the Lord kind of had me turn my head and my shoe rack was in my closet, my- saw a pair of red pumps, and it was just in that moment where I felt like the Lord said, “‘Cause it’s not about you. Your history to your point is His story.”
Jim: Right.
Cynthia: And He said, “and you’re walking on the blood of the lamb.” I am the one telling the story, and by Revelation 12:11, by the blood of the lamb, and the word of their testimony, what God does is made known.” And I said, “Oh, Lord, okay.” And so I packed up my red heels, which I’m wearing today, and uh, went to the state capitol. Said, “Roman, you wanna get out of school and come with mom?”
Jim: (laughs) Yeah, the answer’s yes. Get out of school. (laughs)
Cynthia: Well, absolutely. And in my mind at that time, I wasn’t thinking he would walk up with me. I just thought, let’s go respect our state officials. Let’s go see the capitol in action. And so we drove down, and you wait hours, and the house of representatives, and Cynthia Wenz come forward, and I said, you know, “Sir, may I- may I bring my son with me?” ‘Cause Roman had leaned over and said, “Can I go up with you?” And I, I said, “Pray about it.”
Jim: (laughs)
Cynthia: And uh, he got a yes, and we went up, and I gripped my hands on that podium, ’cause in my insecurity at the time, I thought, “I don’t wanna be too dramatic. I wanna be heard, and I wanna be received as a serious, intentional woman.” As I gripped onto that podium, put those hands down, and uh, I held on, and I stood like this. “Gentlemen. What we didn’t get, what was inside of me, was my son. And he just made the JV water polo team at his high school, and he was swimming then and he’s swimming now.”
Jim: Hm.
Cynthia: And I had a right to know what was inside of me, regardless of the choice I would make. I had a right to be informed. If I was making a choice, I had a right to all of the information. And Roman put his arm around me, and in that moment, the house leader comes up over that chair, and we’re in Texas, right? He says, “Son, that’s the best thing I’ve seen all day.” The house erupts with applause, and everybody’s clapping, and Roman pulls back his shoulders, and I’m, you know, grabbing my chest, and the sonogram bill passed in the state of Texas, that it was required before abortion, and we got to be part of the annuls of history in Texas.
Jim: Yeah. You know, it’s so amazing in that regard. That’s our option, ultrasound, what we have seen when we-
Cynthia: That’s right.
Jim: And that’s placing ultrasound equipment in pregnancy resource centers, and then additional trainings that we do to help train them to use the equipment, et cetera. But a majority of women will, and these are abortion minded women, will choose life when they get the counseling. And the picture, to your point, when they can see the ultrasound, it makes this huge difference.
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: Because it’s not a blob of tissue. It’s a baby. You can see the arms, the legs, the fingers. And you know, we’re always demonized. I’ve been in those debates. I’ve been called all kinds of things. And it’s not true. But at the same time, uh, I have compassion for them, too.
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: They are blind people. Chuck Colson once told me, “You don’t get mad at a blind person who steps on your foot.”
Cynthia: Oh that’s so good.
Jim: And those people in the abortion industry, I mean think about it. If they knew what they were doing, from God’s perspective, I don’t believe they’d do it. They just don’t see it. They’re spiritually blind. And that’s what we’re trying to do, is open their hearts up to the fact that these are human beings.
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: These are babies.
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: And we need to help them. And I’m so grateful for what you have done throughout your life. I mean, all the turmoil, all of the pain, and now you’re sitting here at Focus on the Family.
Cynthia: Yeah.
Jim: And talking about Roman.
Cynthia: Thank You, Lord.
Jim: And your son and helping other women. And I think this might be a good place to go, Cynthia, again I’m just, I can’t get away from women that haven’t gone through the healing process that you’ve gone through. And abortion, let’s be honest, it happens in the church.
Cynthia: Oh yes.
Jim: And women are holding that. And they feel guilty. And they haven’t really reconciled where they’re at with God. They still carry a lot of shame and guilt. Speak to her right now at the end. What would you say to her if you were counseling her?
Cynthia: You called me a poster child. There’s 26 post abortive symptoms that a woman is challenged by. I was the poster child of all 26.
Jim: Hm.
Cynthia: In the book of Romans, we can exchange the lies she’s believing for truth. Liberated to loved, and I would say, take the journey through the book of Romans, go back and redeem the lie, bring it into truth, it is a journey. It does require help. God will gently peel back, like He did with me, the artichoke of healing. I’ll be a part of that. My goal to raise the post abortive voice, the one healed and the one healing. I’ve toyed with the idea of the ministry being called Poster Child.
Jim: Hm.
Cynthia: I think we’ll stick with Liberated to Love because there’s hope.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: Yeah.
Jim: Hm. Cynthia, a couple of occasions I’ve met people in the a- abortion industry.
Cynthia: Hmm.
Jim: We had incredibly frank discussions, and you know, I promised I would keep those confidential, but the uh, there is some regret that I could hear in them, if i could say it that way, that there was a sense that there are better options, and it doesn’t make our day to do what we do, but we do believe it should be a woman’s right to choose and, you know, all those typical statements. You have a powerful story of a woman who was vehemently defending her right to abortion.
Cynthia: Mm-hmm –
Jim: Describe that discussion and how it went.
Cynthia: You know, there’s days I wanna stand up and say, “God is pro-choice.” Stay with me.
Jim: I’m with you.
Cynthia: Deuteronomy, 30:19. Today I set before you life and death but choose life. God- we’re not God’s puppets, He gives us choice. So when we make those choices, with choice comes consequence.
Jim: Mm-hmm –
Cynthia: I am a mother to three children that live in heaven. The consequence of their lives being lost doesn’t go away. I don’t get to see them until I get there. The woman in the state capitol, this is the compassion God deposits in us. Vehemently defended a child she waited forever to have; at 16 weeks she got a spina bifida diagnosis. As I was testifying in the capitol, she was testifying in the capitol. She was in hysterics.
Jim: Hm.
Cynthia: And as I looked at her, I sat back and I thought, “God I just wanna have a conversation with her, and say, I don’t wanna fix her, I don’t wanna tell her she’s wrong.”
Jim: Hm.
Cynthia: I won’t wanna scold her, I don’t wanna shame her. I wanna say, “I understand what that feels like. I am so sorry for your loss.” And I wonder, and this is the question, ’cause we’re no longer in a day and age where I am pro-life or pro-choice. We’re past that. What are her circumstances, and how can we make abortion unthinkable so that life is the obvious and only choice? And it’s gonna come through the poster child of redemption, the poster child of family, transparency.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: Truth.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: And the willingness to journey through that truth. I wonder if she is so stuck in the pain, she’s never unpacked what, the what ifs, and has never had anyone journey with her in love to get to that place where she can lay that child to rest. Because you have to defend what you think is right, ’cause the second you realize you took the life of a 16-week child out of your womb, then you have to realize you’ve taken life.
Jim: Right.
Cynthia: And that’s unbearable. So what happens? You vehemently defend what you did.
Jim: Yeah. And the truth of it is, God’s heart is for her.
Cynthia: For her.
Jim: Not against her.
Cynthia: Not against her.
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: You don’t have to say, “I’ve had an abortion, but God’s forgiven me.” And tuck it away. You have an abortion and God wholly restores and fully redeems that moment in time. What is the truth of where that child is now?
Jim: Mmm –
Cynthia: Who am I as a woman? What are the labels I’m wearing? How can I be fully present, fully transparent in the truth and retell the story, but not relive it?
Jim: Yeah.
Cynthia: And it’s God’s wholeness, God’s wellness. I don’t know how a woman redeems and reconciles an abortion without God.
Jim: Yeah, that’s so true. Cynthia, I wanna choose these words really carefully. This has been painfully good.
Cynthia: (laughs)
Jim: I think you would totally relate to that.
Cynthia: That’s a good phrase. Yeah.
Jim: And I hope the listeners catch it. Um, this isn’t about uh, relishing promiscuity or that life you were in. It’s really rejoicing in what God has done for you. And what God is there to do for each one of us. Whatever that pool of pain is, that he’s for us. And He just wants us to lean into Him, to accept Him, and then that wonderful truth is worked out in our life. And again, you’re such a great example. Thank you.
Cynthia: Thank you.
Jim: For sharing, and thanks for being with us.
Cynthia: My pleasure.
John: Mmm –
Cynthia: Thank you.
Jim: Um, let me turn to the listener. I- I hope that you have been impacted these last couple of days. Cynthia’s story is an amazing story. And here at Focus, we are getting up every day working in this prolife space. There’s so many wonderful pregnancy resource centers around the country. First, I wanna encourage you to go volunteer. Cynthia, you used to be in charge of one. Wouldn’t that be awesome if you had a hundred volunteers show up?
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: (laughs) Saying, “How can we help?” And then support the local pregnancy resource center near you. And Focus, we’re doing our part. We, again, are trying to equip these clinics to be able to do those ultrasounds, so these abortion minded women can see their baby, get the counseling they need, and choose life. And I hope you can participate with us. You know, the metric, uh, Cynthia. And you- you know this working in the clinic world. Uh, for us now, doing this over 16, 17 years, we’ve gotten it down to 60 dollars to save a baby’s life.
Cynthia: Thank you, Lord.
Jim: It’s 600 dollars to do the abortion. And um, I hope the Lord is challenging you.
John: Mmm –
Jim: Can you help us? Uh, a one-time gift of 60 dollars or every month. Save a baby’s life with 60 dollars. (laughs) I mean, it is working and we’re nearing a- a half a million babies saved in the option ultrasound program.
Cynthia: Thank you, Lord.
Jim: Thank you, Lord, and to Him, all the glory goes.
John: Mm-hmm –
Cynthia: Yes.
Jim: But I can’t, uh, beg or plead any more than this. Do you wanna do something for the kingdom and for those women and men that are struggling in this specific area? Support Focus and support the testimonies of the Cynthia’s that you haven’t heard from that you will touch.
John: Mm-hmm – Yeah, this is your opportunity to do ministry through Focus on the Family, partner with us. Make your donation today. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Or you can donate online at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And when you make a donation of any amount, we’d be, uh, pleased to send a copy of Cynthia’s incredible book, Healed for Life, A Story of Redemption. Well, have a great weekend with your family, and uh, your church family as well. And please join us again on Monday for a look at how to navigate expectations in your marriage.
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Dr. Randy Schroeder: Often couples stop expressing their expectations that they so much desire and requesting different things, expectations from their spouse, and they forget it’s all about the big E.
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