Day One:
Matt Jacobson: The truth is there’s hope for your marriage, and you both want the same things, and God wants the same things for you. He’s on your side. So, just remember who the real enemy is, and there is hope.
John Fuller: Matt and Lisa Jacobson join us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, talking about some of the ways that you can strengthen the love and the joy in your relationship with your spouse. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Well, John, we create a lot of marriage content here at Focus on the Family, primarily because that’s one of our major areas, is marriage and parenting and advocacy for kids, and then engaging the culture in addition to evangelism and helping people come to know the Lord. So, marriage is one of those prominent things that we try to help people do better, including ourselves. (laughs)
John: Yeah, I always benefit from these conversations.
Jim: But, uh, you know, we’re listening, uh, this is a two-way dialogue. I like the way Dr. Dobson always talked about that, you know. We wanna hear from you, even if you just want to tell us something that’s important to us, because we collect that information and it helps shape future programs and content that we create. So, if something strikes you or you have an idea, just let us know. Uh, John will give those details later, but we do listen. Uh, some of the top questions we’ve received are about navigating busy schedules, that’s up there. Certainly financial issues, often intimacy issues, communication and conflict. And then a lack of respect or appreciation in that context of marriage. And these are important topics, right? And although they often, uh, present themselves in small moments every day, it’s that drip, drip, drip effect.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And over time, that can become, uh, water torture in a marriage, if I could say it that way. Uh, it’s vital for us as Christians, as the church, but certainly as married couples, to demonstrate that unity. And we’re gonna talk about that today.
John: Mm-hmm. And Matt and Lisa Jacobson have been here before. Lisa is an author, a speaker, and founder, and host of Club31Women.com-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
John: … uh, an online community of Christian women authors. And Matt is a teaching elder and pastor at Tumalo Bible Fellowship, and the founder of FaithfulMan.com, which is a, a social media community focusing on family teaching. Uh, together, Matt and Lisa have written two books. Uh, they go hand in hand. One is called Loving Your Husband Well, and the other is Loving Your Wife Well. And you can find details about those books at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Lisa and Matt, welcome back to Focus. Good to have you.
Matt: It’s great to be back again, you bet.
Lisa Jacobson: Thanks so much.
Jim: Yeah, it’s so fun. Um, let’s get right to it. You, you had an amazing love story. (laughs)
Lisa: (laughs) We do have one.
Jim: A lengthy engagement.
Matt: Yeah.
Jim: Though, I love, I really love this. Uh, you guys kinda knew right away where you’re going. Describe how love became real to you, uh, as you went along. (laughs)
Matt: Well, I suppose most people don’t know that we decided to get married in about six days.
John: Wow.
Jim: Well, God created the universe in six days, so you know.
Lisa: Right, you know, that’s it. But that…
Matt: Well that was it, we wanted to be biblical about the whole thing, so…
Jim: (laughs) Hadn’t thought about it that way.
John: Six days.
Jim: Yeah, six days is fast.
Lisa: We met on a Friday night, and I knew that was a man I was gonna marry. I can’t explain that. I just knew in my heart, and I thought, I just remember thinking, oh, I’m really looking forward to getting to know him because I knew that was who I was gonna marry.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It took him longer, though. It took him a few more days before he figured out…
Jim: 10 days.
Lisa: Three days.
Jim: Well, we’re slow, you know.
Lisa: Three days, it took him three days.
Jim: Three days. (laughs)
Lisa: And, uh, yeah, and by six days, we were talking marriage.
Jim: Wow.
Lisa: So, it was a… And it just seemed very natural at the time-
Matt: It was very natural.
Lisa: … because you know what this means, don’t you? I go, “Yeah, we’re gonna get married.” He goes, “Yep.” And…
Jim: So, how did that, yeah, th- there is a process to this. That’s a pretty…
Lisa: (laughs) Should be.
Jim: You’re going from square 1 to 25.
Matt: You know what? There is. I don’t know if we have, uh, time for the whole story. But, uh, my assistant, I used to work at, in publishing and my assistant came to me one day and said, “Would you be willing to, um, take my friend? Here’s her picture.” And I said, “Oh, absolutely. Let’s do it.” And so, she called. She was living in Southern California at the time.
Jim: When she said, “Take your friend,” what did she mean by that?
Lisa: Well, like, take a friend out, take them to lunch.
Matt: Oh, date. Did I say take?
Lisa: Yes.
Jim: (laughs) Yeah.
Matt: Date, would you be willing to date my friend?
Jim: Oh, I heard, take, but that’s good.
Matt: Got it.
Jim: Date is far better.
Matt: Right.
Lisa: (laughs) Take her.
Jim: Yeah. Just take her off my hands. My friend, she’s driving me nuts. No, but…
Matt: Yeah. It wasn’t till after we were married that you said, “Take me.” No, wait, no, wait, this is a family show. But anyway, so, so, uh, I said, “Sure.” And so, she walked into my office in about a week after that, and all this happened behind the scenes. I didn’t know that she had called Lisa. Turns out Lisa was coming up to visit and had some other things to do. I think, uh, involving a wedding. And so, I said, I had said, “Sure.” She knocks on my door, my assistant knocks on my door and she said, “You know that girl I was telling you about?” I said, “Yeah.” She said, “Well, she’s standing right outside your door, and I was thinking you could take her to lunch.”
John: Wow.
Matt: And I said…
Jim: I think this woman was the matchmaker.
Matt: And I said, “That’s not gonna happen.”
Jim: Oh, wow.
Matt: She goes, “What?”
Lisa: This was our first meeting. (laughs)
Matt: She said, “What?” I said, “I’m not gonna be… What? Sh- Y- She’s here now?” I said, “Sorry, you’re taking her to lunch, not me.” She said, “Well, would you at least come out and meet her?” So I said, “Sure, I’ll come out.” And I was really, I was really polite.
John: With that kinda attitude?
Matt: I was really polite.
Lisa: He was, he was so rude. He was so rude. You were rude. I’m kidding.
Jim: Wow. And you knew right then, he’s the man you wanna marry. (laughs)
Lisa: No, no, no. That’s a…
Matt: That’s what I said. There’s a little backstory here.
Jim: Yeah, oh, okay.
Lisa: There’s a little… Yeah, that’s right.
Jim: It took a little bit of time.
Lisa: So, no. I said, “If he was the last man on earth, I wouldn’t go out with this guy.” So, but I’m gonna…
Matt: I came out and shook your hand. Come on.
Lisa: And he was, and he points, “Well, I’m kinda busy right now,” and stood me up right there in the lobby. Awful, it was awful.
Matt: It was awful. It really was awful.
Lisa: However, and…
Matt: But when I was walking away, I said to myself, “You know, I think I might’ve done that too fast.”
Lisa: Yeah. I… You did.
Matt: I did say that. I think I might’ve done that too fast, so.
Jim: You said that out loud?
Matt: To myself. No, it’s… (laughs)
Lisa: See, that would’ve made all the difference.
Jim: W- It’s like, Lisa knew that. (laughs)
Lisa: That’s right.
Jim: Wow.
Lisa: Actually, a whole year went by. And a-
Matt: Eight mo- Eight months.
Lisa: And, and in that…
Jim: Okay, good. So, that was the kickoff to this wonderful situation.
Matt: Exactly.
Jim: And then you met again.
Lisa: And in that time, though, I, I just feel like, uh, w-
Matt: She went out and bought a wedding dress. (laughs)
Lisa: But, um… (laughs)
Matt: Yeah.
Lisa: But I felt like God impressed upon me. And this is for the singles or people that are, you know, I was a little bit older, I was almost 27, I, uh, really was impressed upon me that I had written my love story in my mind. And God im- uh, just showed me, He said, “You need to let me write your love story.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: “And you n- to have an open hand.” And that was really a very, turning point for me to realize, you know what, I need to be just open to what God has. And…
Jim: You know, Lisa, you’re tapping on something that’s so important. It’s all those expectations we create about everything.
Lisa: Yes.
Jim: And, um, man, I, I have just found in life when, uh, having low expectations, I’m not talking about certain things like-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … job performance and things like that.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And you know, things where performance standards need to be there. But just as your life unfolds, those expectations can be crippling-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … if you think it’s gotta go a certain way. And the Lord’s saying, “Well, it’s not gonna go that way.”
Lisa: And really in so many ways, it continues on even through your marriage ’cause, you know, if you write the script for how this is gonna work, you’ll be disappointed probably at some point or another, (laughs) maybe often.
Jim: Yeah.
Lisa: And being able to say, “You know what, I’m gonna be open to what God is gonna write for us.”
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Well, here’s a, here’s a great example of that, in my opinion. You have it in the two books, the companion books. But on your side, Lisa, in your book, you talked about, uh, the importance of cultivating your own faith and not owning the faith of your spouse.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That is big. Now, some people may not even see it, that they’re pushing their husband or pushing their wife because they wanna see a little more fruit.
Matt: Hmm. (laughs)
Jim: Let’s get out there and do some spiritual exercises ’cause I’m not seeing the fruit I need to see in you today. So, uh, describe that calmness that comes when you concentrate on your own heart and really don’t own the faith of your spouse.
Lisa: Well, I think just realizing that there’s so much that I can do in my walk that I don’t need to spend my time, my energy worrying about his. You can pray about it, you can be an example and an encourager, but there’s really, it’s pointless really to try to live out faith for your spouse, uh, whichever way it goes.
Matt: Holiness only relates to one person.
Lisa: Hmm.
Matt: You can’t be holy for somebody else. And your holiness is not predicated on the behavior of another person.
Jim: Mm-hmm. D-
Matt: God calls you to be holy in the circumstances, actually.
Jim: This is really so important because it does bring calmness to your life-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … when you don’t own somebody else’s activities and decisions. It can be hard in marriage because those impact you the way that they do.
Matt: Yeah, big time, yeah.
Jim: But h- uh, uh… Symptomatically, if I were to try to take an assessment, well, am I doing that to my spouse, what are some of the things that give the indication that you’re owning the other person’s faith journey?
Matt: Well, when you’re pursuing the Lord and you take your eyes off of that pursuit and you start turning your attention to the things that the Bible told the other person to do.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Right?
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Matt: God’s letter, God’s mail is to the other person. So, this relates a lot to what you find in Ephesians 5, we’re, we’re very careful to scrutinize what God tells the other spouse to do, right, as opposed to focusing on what God tells us to do.
Jim: Yeah. No, it’s so good.
Matt: And that’s really what it boils down to is, is a person seeing the way another person is, and rather than, um, praying and rather than having a heart of love and engaging with them on the level that I’m really focusing on myself and what God wants to do in me.
Jim: Yeah.
Matt: And if you don’t do that and you’re just trying to get the other person to change their behavior, then that’s the mistake. It’s trying to get the other person to live a way that you think that they are supposed to, rather than focusing how God’s called you to live.
Jim: You know, and so often in this life, um, what the Lord is doing is sometimes 180 degrees from what we are doing-
Matt: I… (laughs)
Jim: … as a human being, right?
Matt: I think, I think Job thought that, (laughs) so yeah.
Jim: Yeah. So, in that, I mean, in that context, what’s interesting, we think we’re doing the right thing or we’re going to extract the right behavior-
Matt: Exactly.
Jim: … by putting this pressure on.
Matt: Yeah.
Jim: And in reality, we may be creating a detour for God working in our spouse’s heart in the direction.
Matt: Yeah.
Jim: And when you back up and back off, oftentimes you begin to see the very fruit that you are hoping to see.
Matt: Absolutely. The Holy Spirit is actually far better at His job than you are at His job, you know.
Jim: (laughs) Isn’t that the truth?
Matt: And so, yeah, if we just, uh, back off sometimes and let God work through our own, uh, commitment and walk with God, if we walk in holiness, it’s really hard to have an argument with a humble person.
Jim: Yeah, (laughs) no kidding.
Matt: You know? So, if we really are focusing on how God’s called us to walk in holiness, that has a tremendous impact on our spouse.
Jim: Mm-hmm. Well, we could spend the whole time just on that topic. Matt, you also, in your, uh, companion book, you talk about husbands needing to understand that love requires sacrifice.
Matt: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, this is another big topic. These are like bombs, you could spend an hour-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … or two talking about. But what do you, what point are you trying to make there?
Matt: Well, there, there’s certainly an aspect of marriage that is the romantic love, Eros side of marriage, and there’s a whole book in the Bible that talks a lot about that. And so, that’s absolutely an aspect of it. But we’re also called to love, the Bible says “Beloved, love one another. Everyone that loveth is born of God and knows God. And he that loves not, does not know God for God is love.” We tend to apply those kinds of scriptures to the other people in the church lobby, you know.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Matt: But the most important person in life that you will ever have to apply that to is the person that God gave you to be one with. So, you look at, “Beloved, let us love one another,” you look at that love, and that is that agape love, that self-sacrificing, self-denying, uh, love that comes without an expectation of return. And so, when we talk about God calling us to sacrifice for our spouse, we’re talking about God’s call to me as a man, as a husband, to love my wife the way God calls me to love other people.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Matt: And those verses aren’t just for the other people out there. They are most specifically for the most important relationship I’m gonna have this side of heaven. And so, so when we spend time in the Word, our mind begins to change and orient to the things that God wants of me in my marriage. And, and we stop thinking about our marriage as, you know, that which can give me the things that I want, and rather, what God has called me to do, and how God has called me to walk and love and interact with this person.
Jim: Yeah. Lisa, you had a friend that had to choose to be thankful for her husband during a work trip.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Now, many, many wives are probably going, “Oh, I had that challenge too.” I mean, work trips can be a real downer for marriage ’cause one of the spouses is leaving town, probably frequently, and it begins to become a grind for the marriage.
Lisa: Yeah. I, I was so glad to share that story because this, she’s a dear friend and she had really struggled with having just negative cycle of thinking with her husband. And she would just start thinking of all the things he wasn’t doing and how he wasn’t loving her. And we’d been talking a lot about this together. And so, she said, “I went on this trip and, and first night, disappointment.” He ended up staying at a different spot and she was with the kids. And, and she said, “And then I just had this idea, I’m gonna sit down. I’m gonna make myself write things I’m thankful for.” And she said, “The first few kinda came a little slowly.” But as she got going, she realized, you know, I’m thankful he’s, um, does a good job providing for us. I’m thankful that he plays with the kids when he gets a chance. And, and she said, “It was amazing.” So, she went to sleep that night with actually joyful thoughts-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: … rather than crying herself to sleep, which had been her pattern.
Jim: You know, it, it almost sounds too simple-
Lisa: It… I know, I know.
Jim: … that you can actually think your way to a better marriage.
Lisa: I know. It’s…
Jim: But it is concentrating on the right things and not the wrong things. You know, John 10:10 says, “The thief, the enemy, that Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy.”
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that, uh, God Himself, Jesus is saying, “I come that you might have life and life more abundantly.” But that first part, it, it’s not, it can be physical death, it can be a whole host of things.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I think evil expresses itself that way. I personally, I think abortion is that.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That the enemy is coming to steal, kill, and destroy.
Matt: Absolutely.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But that’s true in a marriage too, to kill a marriage.
Matt: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Jim: And in fact, someone shared with me that, uh, you know, marriage is the representation of God’s image on this earth, that He created, uh, man and woman to be His image on this earth, and that the two become one flesh.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that every marriage that walks this earth is a stench in the nostrils of Satan.
Matt: Absolutely.
Jim: And that’s why he attacks it every day.
Matt: Absolutely.
Jim: So, in that context, Matt, um, why is that contentment and respect so vital to cultivate, um, a loving biblical marriage?
Matt: Well, I think you touched on it in terms of this business of being one, spending time thinking, what does that really mean? And at the core of that oneness is the concept of fellowship. And that’s a word that we kinda throw around, you know-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: … a little bit in Christian circles. Well, fellowship, we’re having fellowship, we’re having donuts and coffee after church. That word fellowship is a word that means the participatory interweaving of our lives together.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: That is a, an image of peace and unity-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: … and, and commonality of purpose. And so, yeah, Satan hates all of that. And you can’t find contentment if you don’t discipline your mind and your heart-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Matt: … to think in terms that God has spoken relative to your marriage. There is a terrible theology that is based on a very wrong understanding of one single verse in scripture and that’s at the end of, of Ephesians 5. And it says, “Well, the man needs to love his wife and see that she respect her husband.” But if you actually look at that word, it’s not the word for respect.
Jim: Hmm.
Matt: So, the Bible does not teach that men are to be respected by their wives, but they don’t really have to respect their wives.
Jim: Hmm.
Matt: Okay? This is not a biblical understanding. It is not a biblical teaching. I don’t wanna go into the details of it ’cause it’s a really interesting topic relative to that word, but it doesn’t mean respect. It’s a mistranslation. A man is absolutely, from a biblical perspective, supposed to respect his wife. And the man who is not respecting his wife is in the process of destroying his marriage.
Jim: Hmm.
Matt: Men and women are to respect each other. Husbands are to respect their wives. Their wives are to respect their husbands, absolutely. But your wife will never be content in your marriage if you don’t respect her, if you don’t treat her as a person. And all of the teaching of scripture speaks to this issue of how we’re supposed to interact with another person. Those one and other verses, “Beloved, let us love one another,” um, “Be kind to one another, tenderhearted and forgiving one another,” if we do not walk in respect with each other, then we are in the process of destroying our marriage.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Matt: So, it’s a big topic. But men, absolutely, you gotta respect your wife. The Bible doesn’t teach that she has to respect you, but you don’t have to respect her.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
John: Good clarification from Matt Jacobson. And he and his wife Lisa are our guests today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Uh, they’ve written a couple of really great devotional books. Um, there’s one for men, it’s called Loving Your Wife Well, and the companion is Loving Your Husband Well. Uh, these are 52-week devotionals full of, um, really concentrating on some of the qualities we’re talking about here today. Get a copy of the book from us here at Focus on the Family, our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Lisa, in the book, both of you are very, uh, refreshingly open about your, uh, situation as you were battling through better understanding marriage and what it does-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and God’s intention for marriage. You mentioned the first fight you and Matt ever had. W- (laughs) What happened? Sorry to put this out there, but you wrote about it.
Lisa: (laughs) It’s my fault.
Jim: What happened? And how did you learn the importance of trust through that disagreement?
Lisa: Mm-hmm, yeah. It was, uh, our first, yeah, I would say first big argument was I, I came home to the apartment and there was some plane tickets to California on the counter. And…
Matt: That’s not a problem, is it? I mean, what?
Lisa: And Matt said, “Oh, I forgot to tell you. I’m going, uh, down to California to, uh, for a friend’s graduation.”
Jim: So, it wasn’t plane tickets, it was plane ticket. (laughs)
Lisa: Yes, plane ticket.
Matt: Ah.
Lisa: Yeah, I should say that w- for one. And I realize this now, but it actually triggered me, it really triggered. And I just, he didn’t, Matt had never seen this side of me. I just said, “No, you’re not going. This is not happening.” He said, “Oh, oh, yes, I am.” (laughs) I just remember. So, I think the reason for my reaction was just this triggering of fear of being left.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: And you know, a- again, you don’t know at the time ’cause you’re just, all you know is you, you just can’t see straight. And, um, so we went back and forth, and there was, we were not making any progress in this conversation. And then he went into the bedroom and disappeared for a long time. I thought, oh, he’s packing his suitcase. He’s leaving. I just, I don’t, I have quite an imagination apparently.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: But he was in there for so long, and I, I couldn’t stand any longer. So, I opened the door real quietly to peek in and see what he was doing. And he was on his knees by the bed-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: … and just praying about it.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: And I had never seen such a thing, I had never heard of this idea of, you get in an argument and you can take it before the Lord. Like, I just…
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: This was mind-blowing to me, even though I’d been a Christian for many years.
Jim: Yeah.
Lisa: And, uh, I just, it was so diffusing because I just went and kneeled next to him and I thought-
Jim: Wow, yeah.
Lisa: … okay, whatever’s, however this argument’s gonna end-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: … it almost didn’t matter because we were bringing it before the Lord.
Jim: Yeah.
Matt: And the nice thing about it is our marriage has been perfect ever since.
Jim: Yeah, right. (laughs) That’s what’s so awesome.
Matt: Yeah, right? (laughs)
Jim: Hey, let me ask you, um, you mentioned in your companion book, uh, the mental battles, emotional battles that we fight-
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … uh, within our marriages, et cetera. Pretty tangible, you know that, you know, when something triggers you. It was great that you had that awareness actually-
Lisa: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Jim: … uh, Lisa, that you felt that and went, “Wow. Where that, where’s that coming from?”
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: ‘Cause that’s an important question to ask ourselves, but it’s harder sometimes to see the spiritual battle-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … of what’s going on, what the enemy is doing, what our own flesh is doing-
Matt: Yeah.
Jim: … to rip your marriage apart.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Speak to the recognition of, of those elements within marriage-
Lisa: Absolutely.
Jim: … that are a little more unseen.
Matt: Well, absolutely. Well, I think of it in, in these terms. You know, if you see the soldier, and let’s say he’s in Ukr- Well, Ukraine’s not a great place for a suntan. Let’s reel it, take back to Iraq, right? That’s a great place for a suntan.
Jim: Okay. (laughs)
Matt: But it’s a war zone.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Matt: So, if the soldier’s taking off his, his pack, and taking the clip out of his rifle, and he is just relaxing, slathering on some, some, uh, tan lotion, you’re going, “That’s a fool,” okay, and he’s not gonna last too long. Well, God has told us in His Word that the context of our existence is being surrounded by spiritual enemies.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Matt: This is the message that we find in Ephesians, we’re surrounded by spiritual enemies. And so, if that’s true, then what should we do? We don’t have to ask, we have to read the word. That’s why I like to say, “Are you gonna be a Biblical Christian? Then read the Word.” What does it say in the space of three verses, uh, in Ephesians 6? There it says, “Get dressed.” Get dressed? Yes. It says, “Put on the full armor of God. Get dressed.” Now, that’s interesting ’cause I think we want God to dress us.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Huh.
Matt: One guy said to me, “I was just praying, Lord, help me be strong.” And the Lord’s going, “Have you put your armor on yet?”
Jim: Right.
John: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Because we are in, we are in a spiritual battle. That is the context for the Christian’s life.
Jim: Well, and you’re saying it requires preparation.
Matt: It requires being purposeful-
Jim: Yeah.
Matt: … and preparing. And we just, it’s so easy because of all the noise in life, just to show up on game day and, okay, we’re going into another day. And we haven’t been in the Word, we haven’t listened to what the Lord said. We haven’t prayed, we haven’t yielded our heart to the Lord. And yet the Bible says, “The context of your existence is spiritual warfare.” And God says, “Get dressed, put on the armor.” And the, I think the most important piece of that armor is the sword, right? What’s the sword? The Bible says, “The sword of the spirit is the Word of God.” And that’s what Jesus knew when He was tempted.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Matt: He didn’t h- take Satan on without the sword. He said, it is written when Satan tempted Him, remember those?
Jim: Oh, yeah.
Matt: That time He said, “It is written, it is written, it is written,” He took the sword of the spirit, the Word of God, and He stuck it in the guts of Satan’s arguments. And you know-
Jim: Yeah.
Matt: … he pulled it from side to side. So, (laughs) um, a little graphic there. But that, that’s, that’s the thing about our sword. We have to know how to use it. And God says, “Get dressed. Pick up your sword.” Get into the Word, read it. You are in a spiritual battle. So, recognize that as the context of your existence.
Jim: Yeah, I like that. And, and before we run outta time, I did wanna, we’ll end on a little higher note.
Lisa: Okay. (laughs)
Jim: Moving from that spiritual battle-
Matt: Sure, absolutely.
Jim: … to laughter in marriage-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and the importance of laughter in marriage.
Matt: Absolutely, mm-hmm.
Lisa: We do.
Jim: I understand that. Jean and I enjoy laughing.
Matt: Yeah.
Jim: It is part of our relationship.
Matt: Yeah.
Jim: So, speak to the importance of a sense of humor in marriage.
Lisa: You know, it’s true. It’s kind of almost like a secret sauce, you know, to be able to laugh in your marriage. And there are times where we’re going through heavy things or difficult things and, but we will almost always end the, (laughs) end the night laughing.
Matt: Sometimes it’s hard for you to get into bed without some trauma just before that.
Lisa: He just like… (laughs) He’s always got some traps set for me. It’s just, it’s really ridiculous. And I’m sure as all my friends know about…
Matt: I, I know. It’s, it is kinda goofy. I mean, we are goofy. There’s no question.
Lisa: (laughs) I love pillows on our bed. I have all these pillows just arranged, just so, and he can’t stand the pillows. But he’ll get into bed, and then I’m always the last one to get into bed ’cause I’ve always got this to do and that to do, and, oh, I gotta remember that, so.
Jim: And where does he chuck these pillows?
Lisa: At, at me.
John: Oh. (laughs), at you.
Lisa: It’s like, it’s like, it’s like one of those, uh-
John: Is that the signal?
Lisa: … those games at the fair, you know.
Jim: Yeah.
Lisa: And they’re, and he just, all the way across.
Matt: Not from the same place at the same time all the time.
Lisa: Mm-hmm, right. (laughs)
Matt: I mean, I mix it up a little bit.
Jim: Matt, I think you need to hide the pillows. That’d be my secret. Put them in the garage.
Matt: That’s a good idea.
Jim: Yeah.
Lisa: It’s so much more fun just to…
Matt: Yeah, I like that.
Jim: Hide them up in the rafters, somewhere. But…
John: And then get back to us and let us know how it worked.
Matt: Yeah, sure.
Jim: Let me, let me at the very end here ’cause we’re out of time, but let’s come back next time and keep the discussion going. We’ll cover more, and I’ll mention that in a minute. But for that couple that feels like they’ve lost touch with each other, I mean, they’re listening to this or maybe one of the spouses is listening, going, “Wow. Okay, we’re in that desperate place.”
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Jim: What, what is something they can begin to think about to reignite that relationship in a healthy direction.
Matt: Absolutely. Well, here’s the thing, if you were to talk to them individually and say, “What is it that you’re interested for your marriage,” and turn to the other spouse and say, “What do you want in your marriage,” they’re gonna say the same things.
Jim: Oh.
Matt: We want a marriage that’s close, loving, kind, enjoyable, intimate. Just remember, your spouse is not your enemy. Satan is at work. He’s the enemy. He’s the destroyer. He’s the one that wants to prevent you from the things that you both want.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: The fact is, is that you’re standing on this little canyon wall and you’re, you look down and it’s the abyss, it goes forever, but you’re really just about a foot apart.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: And you could step right across that.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: The truth is there’s hope for your marriage and you both want the same things, and God wants the same things for you. He’s on your side. So, just remember who the real enemy is-
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: … and there is hope.
Jim: Well, thanks for being with us.
Lisa: Thank you.
Jim: And we’ll come back next time, and we’ll, uh, keep the discussion going. Can we do it?
Lisa: Yeah, absolutely.
Matt: Absolutely.
Jim: Okay, good, let’s do that. And I hope you hear the heart that we have for you in your marriage. Uh, don’t suffer in a bad marriage. God doesn’t want you to be in that place of suffering. He doesn’t want you to leave the marriage, but He wants you to have a good marriage. And you both have to work on that together. I think that’s the point of today’s program.
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And these two companion books, what a great way to get started. Devotional books, Loving Your Wife Well, Loving Your Husband Well, Matt and Lisa poured their thought, their experience, their theological understandings into that and you’ve heard a part of that today. Uh, make a donation to Focus for any amount, and we’ll send these two as our way of saying thank you.
John: Yeah. Donate generously and we’ll send those books to you. And, uh, let me just say if Focus on the Family has been of help to you, or to a family member, or a friend. Please consider supporting the ministry with a financial gift or a monthly pledge. Uh, there’s something called a summer slump and it’s pretty real. People, uh, earn different patterns during the summer and giving tends to kinda fall off during this time of year. We really need to hear from you today. So please, continue to support us or begin supporting Focus on the Family so we can help marriages and families thrive in Christ. One of the amazing resources we have for you is our free online marriage assessment, which about a million people have taken. And, uh, it’s 5, 10, maybe 15 minutes of your time, and it’s going to give you some key insights into your marriage about things you’re doing well, and maybe an area or two of improvement. You can access this free assessment through our website. Uh, the details are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast, or call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, to donate and get more information. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with the Jacobson’s. And once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.
