Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Preview:

John Fuller: Today on Focus on the Family, Brant Hansen shares a personal story about letting go of anger.

Brant Hansen: I’ve had to work through forgiving my dad instead of living in response to that the rest of my life. Because I could say, “Well, it’s righteous anger. He was so wrong.” Like, yeah, he was wrong. But I don’t wanna be defined by that for the rest of my life.

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: And God has forgiven me. I’ve got to let go of that anger in order to be healthy.

End of Preview

John: It’s pretty easy to get offended, isn’t it? Uh, people at work, at home, or even on the freeway can do things that hurt our feelings. And it may seem they’re trying to get under our skin, but maybe we need to take a deep breath and, uh, think about how our own attitude factors into those scenarios. Today we’re featuring a great conversation on Focus on the Family with radio personality, Brant Hansen. He’s got stories and insights about how you can let go of offenses and anger even when it’s hard to do. Your host is Focus president and author Jim Daly, and I’m John Fuller.

Jim Daly: John, not long ago we spoke with Brant Hansen on this great topic of being unoffendable, (laughs) and that’s the title of his book, Unoffendable.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I think the larger culture has no idea what to do with the pervasive anger we see around us, and this lack of forgiveness, it is ruining our lives. The Bible says in Colossians that we should put away anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk. And then Matthew 6 says, “For if you forgive others their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.” And that is good news.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Uh, those are some of the issues you’ll hear today to help you in your walk with Christ. And if you’re not yet a believer, this discussion will help you also in letting go of the offenses a little better.

John: And Brant Hansen is well known for his unique and humorous syndicated radio broadcast. In fact, he’s won an award for National Personality of the Year more than once. And he’s an advocate for healing children with correctable disabilities through Cure International. And uh, as Jim said, uh, Brant’s book is called Unoffendable: How Just One Change Can Make All of Life Better. The book has now been revised and expanded, and we have copies of it here at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

John: Let’s go ahead and get started with this conversation on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Now Unoffendable–

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Let me get to it. Why are we offended so often by people? Even for those of us who claim Christ and we know the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, goodness-

Brant: Well-

Jim: … self-control. Why does that guy that cuts me off on the road get to me so easily?

Brant: Well, number one, I think, with anger’s being threatened at some level. I think we know that, that it’s threat. So I guess somebody cutting you off at some deep level, some primal level or something is like-

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: … “He’s gonna get to the food before I get there,” or something.

Jim: (laughs) Now you’re, you’re kind of getting a little close here, you know?

John: (laughs)

Brant: (laughs)

Jim: All these years you’ve finally figured it out.

Brant: But there’s something deep down there that’s like, “Why are you entitled to this, but not me?” So we feel threatened. But that’s anger across the board. There’s things that make us feel threatened that should make us feel threatened.

Jim: So there is a good response, I guess?

Brant: Well, there’s a natural anger that happens.

Jim: Let’s describe them. Let’s go with what’s a normal, you know, anger response and what is over the top. Give us some idea.

Brant: Well, if your, if your parents are abusive-

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: … or you’ve gone through some horrible things in your life, somebody’s taken the life of a family like… Anger, of course, is gonna be a response to that. I mean, we’re actually wired for fight or flight. We’re wired to have all these physiological reactions that happen when we’re threatened. The problem is for the Christian, um, the idea of when does forgiveness actually begin? Or are we supposed to stay angry because we’ve been taught… And I think this is to get at your question about why this is such a big issue for Christians, we’re we’re not taught out of anger. We’re told that, “Well, it’s righteous anger. My anger’s righteous.” So we hold onto it. The problem is, and this is the shocking thing in the book, that when people first hear about it, they’re like, “That can’t be true.” I’m saying in the book that there is no biblical righteous anger for humans. God’s anger is righteous. Yes, Jesus’ anger is righteous. He’s holy.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: But for us, we’re not good orbiters of our own anger. We feel threatened when we don’t need to. We’re supposed to get rid of anger before the sun goes down.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: That doesn’t mean that it’s righteous.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: If it’s so righteous, why are we supposed to get rid of it right now?

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: And there’s no good scriptural argument for holding onto anger and having entitlement to it.

Jim: Well, that, that’s the bottom line. And there are different levels, as you said, the most serious being, uh, you know, abused by another human being-

Brant: Sure.

Jim: … in, in some form or fashion. And the need for the protection of anger. Anger hopefully, will drive you to a better place by getting distance from that abusive situation. So we realize that-

Brant: Absolutely.

Jim: … that most of our day-to-day lives though, deal with lighter touches of this. I’ll give you an example, but I want you to fess up here and give us some of your examples.

Brant: Oh.

Jim: But one of mine, I was on a flight, I’ve, I’ve got a lot of miles, almost 2 million miles on this airline. So I’m in a particular status, you know. So if I ask for a, an aisle seat, I usually get it. Well, somehow I got bumped from the aisle seat I had booked, and I’m in a middle seat.

Brant: (laughs)

Jim: And I’m sitting there thinking, “Okay, do I get irritated?”

Brant: Uh-huh.

Jim: I mean, I don’t know. The other thing is travel conveniences when you’re disrupted from your normal game plan.

Brant: Right.

Jim: That’s another area, a simple area where you can get irritated quickly.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: John, you’re laughing, but-

John: Uh, no, I totally get it and I’m, I’m just thinking of you in the middle seat. You’re a big guy.

Jim: But I had, I had to like purposefully say, “Okay, mistakes happen. Let’s give it a pass. No big deal.” And of course I called my wife, said, “Would you believe they put me in a middle seat, you know?”

Brant: Mm-hmm. Right.

Jim: “I am six foot two and used to play football,” all that stuff. But at some point you gotta say, it’s okay, Lord, this is a first world problem.

Brant: Well, I get aggravated when they put a six-foot two guy in the middle seat next to me.

John: (laughs)

Jim: Well, by the way, they put all of us in the same row.

John: (laughs) Exactly.

Jim: Yeah, we got nice and cozy. (laughs)

Brant: You know, okay. So this happened to me yesterday flying. It’s the same thing-

Jim: [(laughs) Okay.

Brant: I got our, our flight was delayed. All the other flights, it was, it wasn’t too foggy to delay them, but it was too foggy for our flight.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: And I’m watching the planes take off and they kept delaying my flight and I missed my connection, and I got crabby with the lady-

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: … and had to apologize. And then she got a kick out of the fact that someone was apologizing. But it happens all the time. I do think as we get older and more mature, especially as believers, it happens less ’cause we realize this isn’t a threat and I can deal with life. But the biggest reason for actual forgiveness and ex- and surrendering our so-called right to anger is because we are sinners too. Like Jim, you know, this.

Jim: (laughs) Yeah, thanks.

Brant: Like, like you have let people down as well.

Jim: For sure.

Brant: And even if they’re wrong, “I’ve done just as bad.” This is the status we have as believers. It’s not because they deserve forgiveness, it’s because I didn’t. Like that’s why I’m able to extend this and I think waking up in the morning, this is why, where I’m going in my book, like wake up in the morning and realize this is going to happen. When you get on the interstate and people cut you off, you shouldn’t be shocked again.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: “I can’t believe this. C-, can you believe people?” Yeah. Believe it.

John: Hmm.

Brant: These are humans. Believe it. When you travel sometimes we don’t get what we want. It aggravates me too, but I’ve gotta adjust to reality and wake up and think, “Today I’m going to extend the forgiveness that God has given me toward other people, and I’m not gonna be shocked by their behavior.”

Jim: Yeah. I remember, um, when I wrote Finding Home, my first book about, uh, you know, the story of being an orphan kid, which I had to go through all that as a young boy.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And the one of the criticisms I received, and you deal with criticism in Unoffendable–

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … because criticism comes our way-

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … certainly as public people.

Brant: Totally.

Jim: I remember one person when I first started doing the radio program here Focus, somebody wrote in and said, “Jim Daly’s voice is too high.” I went, “Wow, that’s something I just can’t help if people are offended by that. I’m sorry, and I’ll pray that God would give me a bit lower of voice for you.”

Brant: Wow.

Jim: But I mean, you can’t do much about that kind of thing. Um, the oth- but in this case, um, somebody reviewing the book said, “Daly’s best advice is to keep your expectations low.” Which for me, they just missed the whole point. What I was trying to say, there is one way to survive a world that is often offending you is to realize that people are people, that- Brant: Yes.

Jim: Mom and dad are gonna let you down-

Brant: Right.

Jim: That relatives are gonna let you down. That you’re gonna let yourself down. Now you could tag that with low expectations. I say it’s realistic expectations. Would you agree?

Brant: Absolutely. And when someone says, “I can’t believe what my mom just said.” Like think about that. Unpack that. How long has your mom been saying stuff like that?

Jim: Like, “Take out the trash?”

Brant: Yeah. 57 years, right?

John: (laughs)

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: Well, at some point go ahead and believe that she said that people do things like people do and they’ve done it for thousands of years.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: I mean, the first two brothers that were born, one of ’em killed the other one.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: The idea that we’re shocked by human behavior we… If you’re a Christian believer, I mean, we should be the people who are not shocked.

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: We know what our hearts are like. We know what God’s been willing to do for us. Like so to continue, for us to be constant, righteous anger and just be up in arms about how everybody else is behaving doesn’t make sense. We should be the ones who are the least surprised by they’re behavior.

Jim: I know. And I guess that realization that we are in a broken world, we’re still sinners, but we’re saved by grace-

Brant: Right.

Jim: … Thank you Lord.

Brant: Right.

Jim: And we’re trying to rectify these instantaneous impulses in us. You have a, I think a, a parking lot story or where you almost got in a fight or something.

Brant: Oh, sure.

Jim: Now tell yours and I’ll tell mine. (laughs)

John: (laughs)

Brant: You know, you may be conflating different stories.

Jim: I don’t know. Well go for it.

Brant: But, um, yeah, I mean like I’ve had one day to the next, I’m in a parking lot and I’m pulling out and I was taking too much of the center and I was blaming the person pulling in, and then someone was in the place where I was yesterday and I was blaming him. And all that to say it’s always, we are always the victims.

Jim: Absolutely.

Brant: In our minds, and there’s actually a proverb that says, “The first to testify always seems right.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: The first to te-, in, in my mind, guess who the first to testify is, in every conflict and every inconvenience and every… It’s, it’s me. So obviously I think I’m right. I always think my anger’s righteous. But yeah, we’ve had that. I think I cited in the book almost getting in a fistfight about a ping pong. (laughs) I’m sorry, I’m still laughing about this, but the ping pong thing with my church fellas.

Jim: (laughs) Okay. This is good.

Brant: I know. Well, I-

Jim: Confession is good for the soul.

Brant: It was, I didn’t even realize it was a fi-, like I’m not naturally giving, I don’t pick up on cues like I said, and then I realized, “This guy’s about to punch me in the face.” It was just about-

Jim: What did you do? Did you cheat at ping pong?

Brant: No, I, I was saying that the rules are, “The serve goes this way,” like we were playing doubles.

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: (laughs)

Jim: So you were straightening this guy out.

Brant: Totally. Well, I guess. And, um, but to have to stick it out. I mean, my point in the book was we stuck it out. We’re still friends. Like we know we’re broken, but people split up all the time.

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: We split up with our church family. We split up because we’re constantly getting offended. This is the way the whole world operates. We should be the ones that don’t. Like, we’re the ones who don’t ’cause we know we’re broken.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: So we should go, “Yep. That’s us again.” And extend forgiveness as God’s forgiven it to us, to other people. This is what we should be like.

Jim: Now, it’s one thing to laugh about these funny encounters, and they happen from time to time, but hopefully in your sanctification process, what you’re driving at is they’re fewer and fewer.

Brant: Yes.

Jim: In terms of occurrence, they’re happening with greater time, distance, right?

Brant: I think that’s right.

Jim: Um, is that the goal? What about the person that wakes up every day, the believer who’s saying, you know, “I’m offended again.” If you’re feeling offended quite often, is that something you should look at?

Brant: Yeah, I think so. If, and here’s the weird thing, once we call it righteous anger, we pat ourselves on the back for being angry-

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: … instead of doing the opposite, which is deal with your anger. Get rid of it before the sun goes down.

Jim: How do we know it’s righteous anger?

Brant: We don’t. That’s just it. God knows his anger’s righteous ’cause he’s holy.

Jim: Okay, but some people hearing that right now are saying, “No, no. Brant, I know what righteous anger is. When I get upset at this politician-”

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “… or this abortion doctor.”

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: “… or that gay couple that lives nearby.”

Brant: But see, here’s the, here’s the problem. You’re a sinner, and God has chosen to forgive you in a cost of blood. Like, can you extend that to other people? This is not to say what they’re doing is right. See, that’s where people get thrown, is they’re going, “Oh, I guess everything’s okay, then. You’re just being a relativist.” Totally not. What I’m saying is that God’s been willing to forgive me. I have to forgive my anger against them because I’m the unmerciful servant if I don’t.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: Look what he’s done for me. Jesus makes this story very obvious, like one man’s forgiven a lot and won’t extend that to someone else. Now that said, we should still take action against stuff. But people confuse anger with action in our culture, you probably noticed. They think tweeting about something, “Look how angry I am.” Everybody’s angry all the time about everything.

Jim: That’s today’s culture.

Brant: Right. But what we’re called to do is actually take action to correct injustice, actually to do things. Anger does not help us do that with a clear mind.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: It actually inhibits our clear mind. We don’t want our police, our military, acting out of anger, but we do want them taking action. And so this is what I’m called to do as a believer, is to actually do things, sacrifice do what I can, but patting myself on the back for being angry actually doesn’t help anybody.

John: Mm-hmm. Well it may be that, uh, you’ve got some food for thought. I hope you’ll stick around because we have more from Brant Hansen on today’s Focus on the Family. Um, we, he’s written a great book, Unoffendable: How Just One Change Can Make All of Life Better. And, uh, we’ve got the book and a CD, or download of our conversation at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Uh, Brant, you had to wrestle with some faith issues when you were a young man. Um, I think there were some anger issues When you’re a boy. Describe what was going on and, and how you began to get a handle on your anger, even as a child.

Brant: Yeah. This is hard to talk about, but it’s a good question and I do reference it. I’m a preacher’s kid and we went through a lot of stuff in the home from my dad that was the exact opposite of what he was preaching. I saw him preach three times a week.

Jim: Right? How old were you and how did you translate that?

Brant: This was all the way growing up. It, it-

Jim: So was it-

Brant: Until the first.

Jim: Hypocritical or?

Brant: Oh, totally. I was scared at home. My parents divorced-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: … when I was in seventh or eighth grade, and then remarried each other and then divorced again. Squaring that with the reality of faith is very difficult. And it made me extremely skeptical and I am a very skeptical person. It’s just, I’m so skeptical and I write about this some, but just I’m so skeptical it’s chased me background to Jesus, because I-

Jim: That’s a good thing.

Brant: … because yes, I think it is, because you see human nature, I think.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: And I don’t know anybody else who does anything about.

Jim: Hmm.

Brant: Like he’s the only one that acknowledges sin and then does something about it that I can find. And the things he said about how we’re not all, we’re not good, none of us just strikes me as that’s accurate.

Jim: You’re right. (laughs)

Brant: So he says that like he’s got the words of life and I don’t know where else to go. The alternatives are not appealing to me. But yeah, I’ve had to work through forgiving my dad instead of living in response to that the rest of my life. Because I could say, “Well, it’s righteous anger. He was so wrong.” Like, yeah, he was wrong. But I don’t wanna be defined by that the rest of my life.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: And God has forgiven me, I’ve got to let go of that anger in order to be healthy.

John: Hmm. That’s big.

Jim: Yeah. And I appreciate your heart. I think in the book you mentioned a time when you were prepping for your radio program and you were in, maybe you didn’t recognize it at first, but you were going to a subscription.

Brant: Oh no, I recognized it.

Jim: Okay, so why don’t-

Brant: (laughs)

Jim: Rather than me painting the wrong picture, why don’t you paint the picture?

Brant: Well, think about this. I’m a Christian radio host, actually used to know this guy. We used to be friends and he wasn’t a believer that I knew of or anything, but he did a radio prep service, which cost a subscription. It was like $50 a month. And it gives you like the stuff to talk about that day.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: And so I had a password for it and so I would download it and use it without paying. And this went on at this Christian station I was at for six, eight months. And suddenly he emailed me while I was downloading it and said, “Hey, what’s going on man? Just checking in.”

Jim: (laughs)

Brant: And I was like, “Oh no, he can see, you know, my IP address or something. And he knows the Christian Guy is stealing his stuff.”

Jim: Hmm.

Brant: I guess this went on for a year. I owed him like 600 bucks. And so I could barely function like, “I’ve been stealing your s-. I, I, Mr. Christian, whatever, have been stealing from you for about a year.”

Jim: Huh.

Brant: “And I need to send you a check for $600.” And he wrote me back and said, “You know what? I’m going to forgive you. Don’t worry.” So here’s the non-Christian guy, seemingly. Like I know who I am. And we kid ourselves if we think we’re not bad.” And so when I recall that sort of stuff, it’s very difficult not to extend that forgiveness to other people. Like if God has let me go for being that kind of person, why can’t I extend that to other people? I have to, I don’t have a choice.

John: Is that a one-time decision, Brant or is it a process?

Brant: No. It’s every day. That’s what I think, I think-

John: No, I mean, I’m thinking about a, a specific offense that has occurred. Do you like even as big as the, the deal with your dad. Did you forgive him and move on?

Brant: No. It’s on, it’s a, that, I think it’s an ongoing decision. It does get easier, but I think it’s the, it’s the decision to relinquish the right to anger. ‘Cause again, you’ll feel things, but it’s the idea that, “I’m not entitled to this anymore-”

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: “… because of what God’s done for me.” And to be sure we know people have had family members murdered and they let go of that anger because they have to. That’s the thing too, besides the fact that Jesus commanded us to forgive people, just physiologically it’ll lengthen your life.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: Like Jesus knows us. And he’s giving us a way of forgiveness where we actually flourish. And if we reject that way, we’re going to suffer. And again, not just physiologically, but our relationships suffer. We go through, it torpedoes other relationships because we got anger that we haven’t let go of.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: Because we’re constantly living in reaction to that thing that happened to us yesterday or 20 or 40 years ago, and we’ve got to let it go.

Jim: Yeah. You, you share a story in the book about a car accident. I think that, uh, I, I don’t know if it was a friend of yours that was involved in this, but what happened in this car accident? How, why was it an illustration that you used?

Brant: Okay. She’s e- extremely intelligent and her, her dad is a very high-ranking professor at a major university, and she’s an intellect and in an agnostic. She drove into a construction zone and hit a guy, and actually it cost him his legs.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Huh.

Brant: And she went and visited the hospital room and he forgave her.

Jim: Huh.

Brant: And he said, it’s because, “I believe in God and because I’m a Christian, I have to let this go. And I want you to know I’ve forgiven you.” Well, she’s now a believer because of that.

Jim: Wow. The power of forgiveness.

Brant: Yeah. Because there’s nothing else in the world that would give you that resource to do that. Uh, my wife was attacked by a guy on the street last year, and we had to wrestle through this. This is after I wrote the book. So it’s like, “Okay, now what you got?” And the police didn’t arrest him. I had to wrestle with that after writing the book. The police did not arrest the guy, and he kept walking past our front window. We live on the sidewalk practically, like we’re in a townhouse, an old townhouse. I saw him every day walking… My wife would see him. I kept, I went to the mayor, the police like, “Why haven’t you arrested this guy? He assaulted her on the street, threw her on the ground, put her in a headlock, all this stuff.” Like, um, but what had to pray about it. And I went and finally I was relentless and got him arrested. But it took a long time, but I never gave up. It was like I still was taking action, but it was like we were praying for him to the point that our, we felt for him.

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: And we actually asked for leniency in the sentencing. We wanted mental health evaluations. We wanted… But we got that way because we realized we are sinners. That’s a long story short.

Jim: No, that’s a good story.

Brant: Well, and I, I hope people realize too, I’m not against putting someone in jail or anything like that. It was just amazing how your heart changes when you surrender that right. And I didn’t give up on getting him arrested. I think it’d be really compelling in a world of offense if Christians were the ones that we’re not offendable.

Jim: Well-

Brant: Because we know we’re broken.

Jim: Without a doubt. I mean, that should be the way, right?

Brant: Yeah. Wouldn’t that be incredibly compelling to people? Like, yeah, there’s right and wrong, but we’re broken too.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: There’s all these scriptures about how anger resides in the lap of fools. It’s all negative about human anger. In James 1:20, it actually says, and people never memorized this first because it doesn’t work for our theology, but the verse actually says, “There’s nothing about man’s anger that brings about the righteousness of God.”

John: Hmm.

Brant: And we still think, “Well, my anger’s righteous.” Like, that’s not in the Bible. God’s anger’s righteous, God’s vengeance is righteous. He’s entitled to certain things ’cause he’s holy, that we’re not entitled to.

John: Hmm.

Jim: That is powerful. So powerful. Uh, let’s work through a few more examples. For the Christian, uh, what’s the alternative to reacting angrily and acting offended? How do we, I mean, role play with me.

Brant: Oh man. So I guess we’ll take you to the airport, Jim.

Jim: (laughs) Hey, if you can drive for me, that’s perfect right there.

Brant: Well, here’s the thing. I would, what is-

Jim: You’re sitting on a plane and-

Brant: Yeah.

Jim: … you’re not getting the service you think you deserve.

Brant: I think you can act without anger and it’ll be better than if you had anger. Dallas Willard said that too. He’s like, “There’s nothing you would do with anger that makes it better.”

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: You can do it without anger and do it better.

John: Okay. So you guys have brought a lot of travel examples and, and I do travel and so I’ve, I’ve experienced some of those, uh, incidents and had some of those feelings, but I’m thinking Brant of, um, a harder place to let go of anger, and that’s in the home.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

John: Uh, at home is where I find myself getting triggered. I keep a happy, nice Jesus person face on here at work, but I get home and there’s a part of me that comes out that I don’t like. So what can I do before I get home tonight to kind of prepare for that?

Brant: Well, again-

John: Because I, I know everything we’ve talked about here-

Brant: Right.

John: But there are, there are buttons, the, the…

Brant: I think understanding it, first of all, that you, you’re not entitled to right to this anger again and entering into, before you even go into that situation, if you can ask God on the way home-

John: Mm-hmm.

Brant: … for 10 seconds, like, “God, please help me to be forgiving.” Like, it’s really weird too. I’ve been married 28 years now.

John: Yeah.

Brant: And, to continually be put off by who my wife is and for her to be put off by me, we know all this stuff now. And to be able to practice this with, with each other and drop things is so fresh.

John: Yeah.

Brant: And so wonderful. Like quit trying to reform everybody and police the world. In your own home, it’s really hard because you’re living with humans. It’s never gonna end. You’re always gonna be chafing against… And, and again, it’s not to allow all behavior, like, “Well, now my kids can do whatever they want.” That’s not it at all. But the idea that I’m gonna be continually offended that my wife doesn’t give me a heads up on directions when we’re driving. Like, like, how long is that gonna go on before I’m like, “Yeah, we’re broken, and we can have a sense of humor about it.” I think even allowing that we should drop things is a huge step, and then reminding ourselves before we go into it. I do think workplace is actually not easy for people and, and people are constantly offended at work.

John: Oh yeah.

Brant: And it’s a great idea to, to go, “These are the people I’m with. Um, God put me with them and my boss is gonna do stuff that my boss does.”

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: “Now, how do I love, love him or her, anyway.”

Jim: Brant, when you look at it, I so often think of marriage in that context.

Brant: Uh-huh.

Jim: … because you, you know, how many times have we had marriage experts here, John? It’s Gary Thomas or Gary Chapman, or some other marriage expert, Greg Smalley, our very own. But when you get down to it, you think, “Why God? Why have you designed it like this? Why do you pull opposites together so often?”

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I know not everybody is that way. But you pull introvert and extrovert together and night owl and morning person, dark chocolate, milk chocolate.

Brant: Uh-huh.

Jim: And then you put ’em together and say, “Okay, make it work.” And then you irritate each other. And I think really it’s simple.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It really is simple to become more like Christ, which is what giving sacrificial, not as selfish.

Brant: Totally.

Jim: (laughs) And, and you think of that system and then with what you’re doing here with Unoffendable, it’s similar in how you deal with people. Why does the Lord allow people to irritate? Well so that you could become more like him and look beyond that irritation to what God has created.

Brant: And this is love.

Jim: Yes.

Brant: Like when you don’t feel it and you still extend grace to the person behind the counter or the person at work. Like, apparently God is really pleased by that. Apparently it’s obedience. I mean, this is what love looks like when you’re not feeling it in a marriage, for instance.

Jim: That’s exactly right.

Brant: And your wife, like when I was writing the book, my wife brings me tea. And I know she’s not feeling in love with me and she’s had a long day or whatever. I may have just aggravated her and she still does it. That is love.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Brant: Like, so this is a chance, it does shape us to make us more like Christ, but it’s also, this is God’s love language, I think.

Jim: Yeah.

Brant: Is when we do things for people that aren’t doing anything for us.

Jim: Well, Brant Hansen, you have done a wonderful job. I think this is food for thought. If we’ve irritated you today, be sure to contact us-

John: Call Brant.

Jim: … on Focus on the Family. (laughs)

Brant: (laughs)

John: We’ll post Brant’s number.

Brant: Yeah, totally.

Jim: But seriously, folks, this is where it’s at. This is the action. I would love, and I work at this every day, and I don’t do it perfectly. And Jean would be the first to tell you. But it is something we as Christians need to exemplify. We should be different from the world.

Brant: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And this is one of the core areas. If everything’s offending you, maybe you need a deeper relationship with Christ. And that’s good and true for every one of us. And Brant, you’ve done a wonderful, uh, job here in Unoffendable, trying to help us better understand, uh, the journey the Lord has for us. Thank you.

Brant: Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

John: Well, what a good conversation today on Focus on the Family with Brant Hansen on a really serious topic that affects so many. And if you’re struggling with anger, or you’re sensing your home as a powder keg, or maybe you have a real division with others, give us a call because we have caring Christian counselors and we’d be happy to set up a time for you to talk with one of them.

Jim: Yeah, John. And it takes a lot of energy to be angry. Think of that. And as Brant said, “Letting go of that anger demonstrates God’s heart for others, and you get a benefit from that as well.” If this conversation has spoken to you, I wanna invite you to follow up with us. Uh, start by asking for Brant’s book, Unoffendable, and if you can make a monthly gift of any amount to support the outreach of Focus on the Family today, we’ll be glad to send you a copy of the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. If you’re not able to support Focus monthly, make a one-time gift, and we’ll send you the book as well.

John: Call for the book or to speak with one of our counselors. Our number is 800-232-6459, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. You can also find all that you need at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.