Wendy Speake: These triggers are opportunities. And if we don’t ready ourself to see them as an opportunity, we’re going to respond wrong when they respond wrong. But if we’re prepared, we can respond right when they do wrong and we can invite them into maturity with us.
John Fuller: That’s Wendy Speake, and she joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, along with her co-author and friend, Amber Lia. I’m John Fuller. Thanks for joining us. We’re gonna be talking about, uh, how to respond in angry moments with gentleness.
Jim Daly: (laughs) John, I think for parents, uh, we don’t realize there’s grace when we get angry. And the Lord extends that grace to us. And I think we just, like, we revert to so much guilt. I remember one time, y- you know, I had disciplined Trent. He was probably six or seven. He was in the ump- upper bunk. So I had him eyeball-to-eyeball at bedtime-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and I said, “You know what? I, I just need to apologize. I overreacted to that.” And he had this big smile on his face. I’m like, “Why are you smiling?” He goes, “I didn’t know parents had to apologize.”
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: And I thought that’s, that’s awesome.
Amber Lia: Yeah.
John: Yeah. And-
Jim: So it gives you an opportunity for that. And we’re only human.
John: And, and you still remember that moment.
Jim: Oh, both of us do. We laugh about it.
John: I remember 30 plus years ago where I blew it, and, ugh. That still kinda follows around, so…
Jim: Well, and I love this theme, and we’ve had it before, we’re going to talk about it again, Triggers, with our guests. And this is such a good mom book, but dads, you can tip into this, as well, because it affects us. too.
John: I think you’re absolutely right. And Amber Lia and Wendy Speake are, uh, uh, together, uh, each of your families, I think, has seven boys.
Wendy: All together.
John: All together?
Amber: That’s right.
Wendy: Seven little triggers.
John: So you’re, you’re living the dream.
Amber: Seven triggers. (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Jim: (laughs)
Wendy: (laughs)
John: You’re living the dream, and, uh, you’ve written a number of books. You’ve been here before. We love having you back. Uh, as Jim mentioned the book is called Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle Biblical Responses. We’ve got details about our guests and that book at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Well, Amber and Wendy, welcome back. It’s always good to have you. You bring a certain energy to the broadcast booth, here.
Wendy: Thank you.
Amber: Well, we’re glad to hear it. Yeah. Thank you.
Wendy: We love being here.
Jim: Yeah, I love the, I love the cover of the book. If people can’t see this because they’re listening on the radio or wherever they’re listening, it is a mom with her mouth wide open kind of screaming.
Wendy: Kind of screaming. (laughs)
Amber: Accurate.
Jim: Okay, that’s it, right?
Wendy: Yeah, yeah.
Amber: Accurate picture.
Jim: I mean, that’s the statement. (laughs)
Wendy: Yes. (laughs) Yeah.
Jim: And John mentioned this, but you’re moms of seven boys combined. I mean, so you get it. I’ve got two boys. Boys are great. Boys are a bundle of energy. And sometimes they’re just, and I’m sure daughters do this too. I just haven’t had that experience. John, you’ve got that experience. But man, it’s like button pushing, right?
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: They know exactly where to push your button to get the reaction they want.
Wendy: Absolutely, they do.
Amber: Yep.
Jim: So the golden question is: tell us about how you are overcoming your anger when they push that button? And then we’ll sign off.
Amber: Okay. Simple enough.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: You know, I planned to be a great, calm, gentle, biblical, loving mom. That was the plan before I had kids.
Jim: So you went into it with that thought.
Amber: Yeah. I went into it.
Jim: I’m gonna be such a great mom.
Amber: I’m gonna be a fabulous mom, because I had been a teacher. I had been a teacher with lots of students, and I was pretty calm with them and I felt like I was a great teacher. And so I just naturally assumed that that would play a part in my parenting journey. And then I had kids, and that whole mindset got turned upside down. And I love my children, but they were not producing peace in me. I realized…
Jim: And they don’t go anywhere at three o’clock in the afternoon.
Amber: Yeah, no.
Jim: They don’t go home.
Amber: They don’t go home.
Jim: There is, your, your home is their home.
Amber: Yes. 24/7, whole different ball game. And so it was a shock to me to discover that I had some triggers.
Jim: Yeah. Do, so you really didn’t think you did.
Amber: I didn’t.
Jim: You think that’s pretty common with most moms, that they, they, like you, have that attitude of “Well, I think I can manage this. I’ll be a great mom.”
Amber: Yeah, I think so.
Jim: “I love the Lord. The Lord will show me the way.”
Wendy: Sure. I abide in Him, He abides in me, and the fruit of His spirit will be, you know, hanging plentiful on my-
Jim: Yes, Wendy. (laughs)
Wendy: … um, in my life.
Amber: We’re caught off guard.
Wendy: And, well, and I think that there are various-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … reasons why we can be caught off guard. Amber has a little bit more of a traditional, uh-
Amber: Yes.
Wendy: … story-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … and how she got here. And mine was more of a surprise in a different way. So do you wanna go first?
Amber: Yeah, so I, when I, when I was growing up, I came from a home life that had quite a bit of chaos. My parents came out of a situation that was very difficult for them. Let’s just say that. And so there was a lot of challenging moments for them as parents. And they were wonderful and we have a fabulous relationship. But I swore, I will never yell at my kids. I’ll never be this angry. I’m never going to do that and pass that on, and then I found myself doing that, and so I just was frustrated with myself. Like, how is this happening? Because that’s not who I thought I would be.
Wendy: Right.
Amber: And it real- that caught me off guard. And Wendy, it is very-
Wendy: Yes, it’s, it’s the opposite.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: I don’t have a single memory of being yelled at or people yelling in my midst. And so when I had the third child-
Jim: My jaw’s hanging open, here. Huh?
Amber: I know, right?
Wendy: When I had my third child, it’s like something broke. It’s like, “Whoa, why?”
Jim: Yeah, you got outnumbered. (laughs)
Wendy: Why does it keep coming out of me, this, this, you know, exasperation, this anger, when I never had this modeled?
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: So it doesn’t matter how you got here, this conversation is really just for all of us because we get there.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Okay. But here’s the question: were you ever that woman that you saw that out of control kid at Walmart and said, “Not when I’m a mother.”
Amber: Oh.
Jim: “That will never happen.” And then sure enough, boom.
Wendy: There you are.
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: It’s easy to say that until you have that child yourself. (laughs)
Wendy: Right. You got a lot more, uh, compassion, a lot more empathy for moms once you’ve become one.
Amber: Yes, that’s right.
Wendy: That’s for sure.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: Isn’t that a great idea? Go and say, “Is there any way I could help you?”
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah, rather than judgment.
Wendy: Yeah, or just that, “You’re doing a good job, keep at it.”
Amber: And that’s why when-
Wendy: And I hope that’s what this is.
Amber: That is. That- that’s what I was just gonna say.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: That’s what Wendy and I, our heart is, is that we want parents to know that they’re not alone in that.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: And they do not have to feel shame and condemnation-
Wendy: Right.
Amber: … and that there is hope.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: There are things that we can do and that the Lord does transform us.
Jim: Amber, tell me about the two-
Amber: Yes.
Jim: … trigger types, I guess.
Amber: Well, there are internal triggers and there are external triggers, and both of those triggers are, you know, situations that can catch us off guard, but it is helpful to understand, “Why am I feeling this way?” And it can be things that are external, like, “I haven’t gotten enough sleep,” or, “The house is a mess,” or, “We’re just running late.” But it could be the internal things, as well. You know, I find that many times my anger stemmed from just loneliness. And not feeling like a capable mom, like I didn’t know what I was doing.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Amber: Um, it could be even, you know, issues in your marriage that then they spill out onto our children. So there are many different things that can impact us, and it’s helpful to identify them because if we are unaware of why we’re even, you know, reacting this way, it’s difficult to see, “How can I move forward in a better direction?”
Jim: So one of yours that was mentioned in the book is “disobedience of your children.” And I-
Amber: Yes.
Jim: Most parents would say, “Yeah, that one doesn’t sit well with me, either.”
Wendy: That’s a trigger.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But it was a trigger which may be a little more depth to that, I guess. So how, how was that a more serious trigger for you?
Amber: Well, so for, you know, when my kids would disobey, and I think a lot of parents feel this way, we go into parenting thinking our kids naturally are going to know that they need to obey us. “I’m the authority figure.” And so they’re going to listen and they’re going to be compliant. And then when they’re not, I felt like I was a victim. I was always in this place of, “They’re doing this to me.” And I had to shift and realize, “No, they’re immature. They have not figured this out yet. And their disobedience is… It is human nature. It’s normal. It’s not a benchmark of my parenting. Um, it is really an opportunity now for me to, to help them through their disobedience toward maturity. And also, you know, when my kids are disobedient, I’m really seeing that they’re sinning against God. They’re not sinning against me. And so now I have the privilege. I get to-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: … help them correct them lovingly in the right direction, right?
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: It’s not personal.
Jim: I’m laughing because it makes total sense-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … but it is hard to live it.
Amber: It’s hard to do.
Jim: I mean, when you’re feeling that.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: Wendy, how does a mom, uh, make that adjustment for her expectations when it comes to this…
Wendy: Right.
Jim: “Okay, my child’s just expressing his natural inclination to become independent, and therefore I will react in calmness and love.”
Amber: (laughs)
Wendy: Well, you know, in the triggered moment, if you haven’t prepared for it-
Jim: Yeah. (laughs)
Amber: That’s right.
Wendy: You’re not going to.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: You’re not going to, you’re going to respond in your flesh rather than in the spirit. You have to prepare the Spirit, and sometimes also prepare words.
Jim: Yeah. Okay.
Wendy: And one of the things that we say in this… Well, a couple of things. Amber, in many of her chapters… And the book is laid out with 30 short chapters where we just take common triggers. And in many of Amber’s chapters, she reminds us, “These triggers are opportunities.”
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And if we don’t ready ourselves to see them as an opportunity, we’re going to respond wrong when they respond wrong. But if we’re prepared, we can respond right when they do wrong, and we can invite them into maturity with us. But one of the things that I say, and it is, you need to figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean. ‘Cause so often-
Jim: Ouch.
Wendy: … we’re taken by surprise because they got out of bed for the umpteenth time when we’ve-
Jim: Ugh.
Wendy: … tucked them in lovingly, gently, and we’re exhausted. But if we can look back and say, “Oh, that always takes me by surprise. Okay. What am I going to start doing differently?” And we can prepare what we mean to say, gentle, loving, maybe firm.
Jim: Sure.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: But we can be prepared. And if we’re not prepared, that means we’re probably not going to see those triggers as opportunities. Instead, we’re going to be triggered.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah, exactly.
Amber: Yeah.
John: So, so one of the things you’re saying is that we’re not supposed to be the rule keepers for our kids. We’re not supposed to make sure they follow the rules. I think you use the analogy of coaching.
Jim: Is that what they’re saying? (laughs)
Wendy: Yes, but coaches do have rules, too.
Amber: And guides. And guides. And guides.
Wendy: Yeah, but there is a-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: There’s an order to things. I think that the tendency sometimes is to discipline our children as though that’s going to teach them; but there needs to be discipleship and there needs to be training.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: So-
Amber: That’s the key.
Wendy: … Amber starts the book off really talking with that coaching model.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: So…
Amber: I, I felt for a long time I needed to fix my kids, and I realized pretty quickly that I get to guide them toward maturity, whether it’s personal development maturity or spiritual maturity. And so really looking at myself as mom as a coach and saying, “Okay, let me evaluate what’s going on here. When you’re disobeying me, what’s really happening?” And then getting to the root of that and then setting up opportunities for them to practice outside of conflict.
Wendy: Right.
Amber: Okay, so you are supposed to come to the dinner table, you know, in a timely manner. It’s a simple request, right? Or get to the car on time with your shoes actually tied.
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: You know, whatever the case may be.
Jim: Are you talking to me?
Amber: (laughs)
Wendy: (laughs)
Amber: How are your shoes looking today?
Jim: Slip-ons.
Amber: Okay, perfect. Yes, winning. Yeah, sometimes that’s all we… And that’s part of the evaluation, honestly.
Wendy: Yes, sometimes we can do this. Yeah.
Amber: Sometimes we just need to get practical. Could we just, you know, maybe b- buy some slip-ons. But practicing these things with them-
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: … so that they’re not caught off guard by our anger because of our expectations when we haven’t done the front work to really work with them in whatever the disobedience is that, you know, or the issue or the trigger ahead of time.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: And to plan ahead.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: And-
Wendy: So we’re planning, we call them parenting scripts. When we’re not triggered, how am I going to behave when it’s time to leave the park and the kids are melting down? Okay, I’m going to be prepared with that next time. So I mean, that was a scenario for my family-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … with three boys when they were young. And we went to the park a lot. And all of the wonderful expectations would just evaporate into a puddle of tears when the fun time was over.
Jim: Yeah, time to go home.
Wendy: So I, I went back to coach, coaching the kids. And we had to leave a park because of a meltdown, and the next time we went, we got there and I said, “Hey, guys, we’re going to start to play, but I’m going to give you a heads-up: in about 15, 20 minutes, I’m going to tell you it’s time to leave and we’re going to practice leaving. And if it goes well, we’ll come back for a couple of more hours.” And so we did this, and we did it a couple of times and it was back to just training to do it right.
Jim: Wow. So, so let me get this right. So you practiced leaving.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: And because they obeyed-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … then you went back to the-
Wendy: And had a great time.
Jim: … I mean, you just stayed at the park.
Wendy: And then when it was really time to leave-
Jim: Oh, that’s good.
Wendy: … say, “you guys already nailed this.”
John: Genius. Yeah.
Jim: Yeah, that’s clever.
Amber: It’s like a game now.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: It’s fun.
Jim: So let me ask you this question. It’s kind of the theological question. Given this irritates all of us as parents-
Amber: Right.
Jim: … why didn’t the Lord just structure kids to obey us as parents kind of blindly? That would have been a lot easier, Lord.
Amber: Mm-hmm. Well… (laughs)
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: That maybe a question for the Lord.
Wendy: Well, I know that He cares so much about our sanctification.
Amber: Yes, that’s true.
Wendy: And we think of their growing and maturity as their sanctification.
Amber: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wendy: But I can just see every mom and dad on the other side of this broadcast nodding their heads going, “Yep, it’s my sanctification that the Lord’s after, here.”
Jim: Isn’t that what’s at work the whole time-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Isn’t it, though?
Jim: … for the child and for the parent?
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: For the child and for the parent.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: But I would say for the parent and then for the child.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: Because Jim-
Wendy: (laughs)
Amber: … you know, we, we want them to obey, but God, I realized this early on, when my kids were not doing what I wanted them to do, uh, was that God wanted me to obey first.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: And my obedience looked like not losing my temper, not being quick to anger, being slow to speak, right?
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: Quieting contention, becoming more of a peacemaker, myself. Really just, “Amber, stop being rude to your child. Just because they’re being rude to you, you don’t need to dish it back to them.”
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: And so it had to start with me. You know, I had to get that self-control activated, you know, through the Holy Spirit, and work on myself first. It was the log in my eye before I started working on the speck in my child’s.
Wendy: Right.
Amber: And that was what God was after.
Jim: What? That even applies in parenting?
Amber: It does.
Jim: Oh.
Amber: I’ll tell you what. I’ll tell you what.
Jim: No, it’s so good. And you are teaching the child how to be an adult someday.
Amber: That’s right.
Wendy: Yeah, absolutely.
Jim: You’re giving them that, kind of the Fruit of the Spirit, which is-
Amber: Yes.
Jim: … incredibly important.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Wendy, let me ask you this: with the kind of the strict, I would say discipline orientation of scripture, you know, “spare the rod, spoil the kid,” that kind of thing.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: Um, what do you see in the Bible about responding to children with that gentleness so that they can come… I’ll give you an example. A good friend of mine in South Africa, Donny Vandenheaver, who started Focus South Africa, actually.
Amber: Nice.
Jim: I used to spend a lot of time with their family, always stay at their home. They had four children. The youngest was a little boy, Rudy.
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: And Rudy would get into trouble with his sisters, and he’d sit in a chair, Donny, and say, “Rudy, come son. Come here, son. Tell me, what is frustrating you right now? Why are your sisters so upset with you? What have you done?”
Amber: That’s right.
Wendy: Hm, yeah.
Amber: Right.
Jim: (laughs)
Wendy: You know, what you’re saying reminds me of Christ.
Jim: Right.
Wendy: And so that would be my answer, is we can take scriptures of admonition on how we are to parent with the rod, or a number of others. And if we don’t consider the scripture through the lens of Christ’s example, or even God, the Father of that wayward people, those wayward kids, the Israelites in the desert, if we don’t consider how God parents, those scriptures are dangerous.
Jim: Well, here’s, here’s the outcome question for you: you know, at the end of, and we, we’ve counseled many parents that have been in this situation. If you only concentrated on the outcome of behavior, most likely you will have missed developing their heart-
Wendy: Their heart.
Jim: …for God.
Amber: Ooh, that’s so true.
Jim: In terms of an overemphasis.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: You have to do both. You don’t disregard either. And it’s kind of like anything. When you’re out of kilter one way or the other, you get a bad outcome.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So it’s that consistency of boundaries-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: …but then doing it with the love of God.
Wendy: Well, and it’s back to that same conversation of, “You disciple first and then you discipline.” Discipling is the heart. Disciplining is the behavior. But always go back-
Jim: Yeah, as… Yeah.
Wendy: …to the discipleship.
John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guests are Amber Lia and Wendy Speake, and we’re talking about their terrific book, Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions for Gentle Biblical Responses. Get a copy of that when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Wendy, you learned a parenting concept at a swim class.
Wendy: (laughs)
Jim: The only thing I learned at that swim class was starfish, starfish.
Amber: I would like to see that.
Jim: Which is a great concept for survival.
Wendy: Yes, yes.
Jim: But starfish. What-
Wendy: This is survival, too.
Jim: What did you learn?
Wendy: Okay. So my children went to, you know, toddler swim classes.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: And, um, my oldest son had a swim teacher that he had never had before, and the kids kept coming off the side of the wall and sinking. So, not a small thing. Like, this is a dangerous thing, and there needs to be a, you know, a lesson learned. “Stay on the wall if I’m not with you. I’m teaching your little brother right now.” But, out he came from the wall, and she’d scoop him up, look him in the eye, and say, “Uh oh.” And I remember being, you know, on the bench watching this thinking, “Well, uh oh, uh oh. Uh oh is not going to work with my strong-willed kid. You give him a lecture, sister.” And the truth is, my son looked her in the eye and stayed on the wall after that.
Jim: Hm.
Amber: Hm.
Wendy: And I started applying “uh oh” instead of the lecture.
Jim: Oh, wow.
Wendy: Did I already teach how they should X, Y, or Z? Did I do the discipleship? Did I do the training? Did I give the lecture? I have. Do they know right from wrong? Yes, they do. So what’s more respectful? To drone on and on about what they should or should not do; or to remind them that they know?
Jim: (laughs) That’s good.
Wendy: And if I don’t fill the space with my incessant nagging, guess what’s more likely to happen? Conviction in their little hearts. “Oh, that was wrong.” What-
Jim: And it’s a lot easier.
Wendy: It’s so much easier.
Jim: “Uh oh.”
Wendy: And I stay calm and they stay calm.
Jim: Okay.
Wendy: And they get to say, “Oh, yeah. That wasn’t smart.”
Jim: But that old adage, you know, “Insanity defined as doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.”
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: Right? So, I mean, that is smart. Just try something different, a little lighter.
Wendy: Right.
Jim: Especially age appropriate.
Wendy: Right.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You know, a three-year-old probably understands “uh oh” better than the professorial lecture. (laughs)
Amber: It works on teens, too, I think. (laughs)
Wendy: Well, and what are, what are we taking back?
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: And I actually…
Amber: It works on teens.
Wendy: It does work on teens.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: And also, how gracious it is to a child, even as they transition into adulthood, to acknowledge, “Whoa, that didn’t work-”
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: …with compassion.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Let me ask you, Wendy: there’s I think three things that you encourage moms, and really, dads, too, to keep in mind when their children start to complain. Oh, this is a good one.
John: Complain. (laughs)
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Complaining is like their number one job.
Wendy: Yeah. Um, well, you know, even though they are things that our children are doing, even if it’s an external trigger, as we call it, the question is an internal one. Why is this bothering me?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And am I going to complain about their complaining and think that my complaining is going to help them learn not to complain? What are there other things that I can do when they’re not in the heat of the complaint? Well, we can circle back to scripture, but one of the things that I list there is, often, parents use scripture more like a hammer than a scalpel. We, in that triggered moment, we say, “Well, you know what God’s Word says in Philippians.”
Amber: Like a dagger, even, instead of a…scalpel. (laughs)
Wendy: “It says that you should not be a…” (laughs)
Jim: That sounds-
Wendy: Yeah, a dagger.
Jim: That sounds very good to me.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: (laughs)
Wendy: You know, God’s Word says-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … that you shouldn’t complain. God’s Word says that you should honor your parents and it’s going to go well with you. How’s it going for you right now, son? Right? (laughs) As though that’s going to get to their heart.
Amber: Atone their heart.
John: That’s really good role playing, ’cause you’ve never done that.
Wendy: No, no, no, no, no.
Amber: No, never.
Jim: I’m going to go hide under a rock.
Wendy: I’ve, I’ve heard that, that, that family at Walmart.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: You’re good.
Wendy: I’m just quoting them.
Jim: Yeah, yeah.
Wendy: Um, and yet-
Jim: Wow.
Wendy: … if you can wait until you’re not triggered and they’re calmer and circle back and say, “Hey, you know, I’ve been thinking of- about… God’s Word actually talks about the issue we had earlier today. So I’m thinking about what it looks like in my life. What would it look like to not complain when your brother does that to you?
Jim: Right. And just to concisely put that, you said, number one, behave right even when they behave wrong.
Wendy: Behave right when they behave wrong.
Jim: (laughs) You know, which, another way you would say it is-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … be the adult in the room because you are.
Wendy: That’s right. Because you are.
Jim: (laughs)
Wendy: I love it. Be the adult in the room because you are.
Jim: That is such a tough one, though. I mean-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … I have done that. I mean, I’m down there in the nitty-gritty.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: Kind of the, what’s the old analogy? When you get in the pig pen with the p- the pigs, you get dirty?
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Yes, you do.
Jim: I mean, parents just have an amazing ability to act like children- (laughs)
Amber: We do, and…
Jim: … when we get into it. Like, “Do it because I told you to do it.”
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: And when the kids are, you know, complaining, arguing, whining, what was helpful for me to understand is that they’re often feeling powerless.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: And so when we move to asking them some questions, like, again, like you were saying, Jim, like, “Tell me, why are you feeling this way? What’s going on?”
Jim: Yeah, that’s really good.
Amber: It just puts it right back into, “I’m their guide. I’m their coach. I get, I don’t have to fix this. I can guide them toward really understanding what their feelings are,” and they feel less need to whine and complain because they know that mom’s going to listen.
Jim: Well, and you’re really helping them later in life to be a good husband, a good, uh, wife, because communication is the core thing in human, you know, problems.
Wendy: A good friend, a good employee, a good student.
Jim: Yeah, totally.
Wendy: (laughs)
Jim: It fits everything. Hey, Amber, you… I love this story. I want to get this in. But you, you bought a bouncy house, which created some conflict-
Amber: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.
Jim: … with the boys. How could that happen?
Amber: Oh, yeah. Why is it that we do something fun for them, and then it goes haywire, right?
Wendy: Right.
Jim: Guaranteed.
John: Yeah.
Amber: Every parent’s resonating with that. I thought this was gonna be a fun trip.
Wendy: It’s back to that same idea,
Amber: And now, I wish we had never left. Right?
Jim: Right.
Wendy: Of being the victim.
Amber: So- yeah.
Wendy: Right? That’s why we feel like the victim, is-
Amber: Yep.
Wendy: … “Do you not recognize what I just did for you?”
Amber: So then they’re in the bouncy house, and the whole time, they’re arguing and fighting with one another. Just sibling rivalry at its finest. Who gets to make up the game we’re going to play? Was that knee to the face truly an accident? Or did they do that on purpose? You know, who has to put this thing away? So it’s just like one trigger after another. And so I learned quickly that, first of all, they’re arguing and fighting with one another. Their sibling rivalry is so human nature. Again, it wasn’t a reflection of me, and I get the opportunity now to help them sort through this sibling rivalry. And so I would say to them, “You know what? I think this is something you can work out, and I’m confident that you’ll be able to figure out who gets to take turns, how you’re going to do it.” So instead of trying to solve it for them, instead of just moving quick to punishment or saying, “Forget it, we’re just going to put the bouncy away,” right? I want to teach them, how do I actually learn to cooperate with my sibling? And I don’t want to feed that to them all the time. I say to them, “I believe that you guys are going to work this out, and I can’t wait to see what you’re going to do to come up with a good plan to take good turns with each other.”
Jim: You know, that-
Wendy: How respectful is that?
Jim: That, no, that’s really good. And I think I, I did not do that well. I jumped in and solved the problem-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … just so I would have peace and tranquility.
Wendy: Yeah.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But what a great concept to teach and empower your children to do the problem solving.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Yes. I agree.
Amber: It’s so good for them, because now what’s so great is my oldest is 17, and at night, um, I’m exhausted, but I force myself awake because that’s when his mind unlocks and he wants to debrief his day. And he will come in and I’ll come in to pray with him and he’ll say, “Mom, this happened today and that happened today. And I’m really feeling X Y Z, And I think it’s because of this.”
Wendy: Hm.
Jim: Hm.
Amber: “And so will you pray about that with me?” And I’m like, “Yes, Ollie, let’s pray together about that.” But I know, and so I hope that parents with young, um, kids are listening to this, that I didn’t know that was going to be the fruit-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: 10 years later.
Jim: Right.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: But I get it to see it now.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And I hope they’ll be encouraged that, it, you’re going to be watering the seeds of empathy and kindness and the Fruit of the Spirit towards your children in these triggered moments. Be faithful, because you are shaping their hearts. You are allowing them to learn. How do I process my emotions well? How do I navigate these sibling relationships? So that as they grow older, they become really expert in that. And it’s a beautiful thing to see and to partner with your older kids in.
Wendy: Yeah, that’s beautiful.
Jim: Which, Wendy, was that last point: Act like a Child of God.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: That was your point three of those three points.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: That’s right.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: And that’s such a beautiful reminder. We’ve run out of time today.
Wendy: What?
Jim: But let’s hang on.
Amber: Time flies.
Wendy: (laughs)
Jim: I mean, we have scratched the surface of this. There’s so much more work we can do-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: Yes, there is.
Jim: … to perfect our parenting skills. And I hope you have enjoyed this. I mean, this has been so good to have Amber and Wendy with us and to talk about their book, Triggers. Uh, we want to get this into your hands. So if you can make a gift of any amount, we’ll send it to you as our way of saying thank you. The best way to do that, a way that John and Dena and Jean and I support Focus is monthly.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: If you can do that, that really helps, because it evens out the budget for the whole year and we can count on that revenue, then, to do the things in marriage and parenting and counseling and all the things that we have to budget for. So be a part of the ministry. This accrues to your account, not ours. I love a donor couple I called one time to thank and they said, “Jim, we just expect you to run Focus effectively and efficiently so we can do ministry through it.”
Amber: No pressure. (laughs)
Wendy: Wow.
Jim: Isn’t that awesome?
Amber: But that’s amazing.
Wendy: What a charge.
Amber: That is amazing.
Jim: It’s a terrific way to look at this.
Amber: Yeah, that’s great.
Jim: You know, you’re working hard. You send some of that to Focus to do Kingdom work. We’re going to do it as effectively and efficiently as possible. But again, that ministry accrues to your account, I believe, in the Lord’s eyes. So thank you for joining us.
John: Yeah. Donate today. Uh, a monthly gift, if you’re able. Or if you can’t do that, a one-time gift of any amount is deeply appreciated. Uh, those contributions help us reach parents around the world, so donate today. And if you’d like some more parenting tools, we have a free parenting assessment. Now, this is an online quiz that takes maybe seven to ten minutes of your time, and it’s going to show your strengths as a mom or a dad and some areas where there might be room for improvement. It’ll offer resources, then, to help you fill the gaps. Let me encourage you to take that, if you’ve not yet done so. Take the assessment and make a generous donation today. The links are at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And as always, you can also call us if you have any questions or you want to make your contribution over the phone. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
