Preview:
Dr. Bill Lile: So we’re not just saving that one pregnancy, we’re not just saving that one teeny-tiny little heart. We are saving an entire generation, an entire family unit, which is gonna be multi-generational. Women deserve better than abortion.
John Fuller: That’s Dr. Bill Lile. He’s our guest today, sharing about the value of every human being, including the baby in the womb. Also with us is Robyn Chambers from our staff, and we welcome you to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, this is such an important discussion, this idea of life in our culture. You know, since the Dobbs decision at the Supreme Court, which basically, uh, brought down Roe v. Wade, it’s all gone to the states now. Some states have, uh, restricted, more restricted abortion, and man, I’m pleased with that. We have maybe a hundred thousand babies alive now-
John: Mm.
Jim: … and thriving that would not have had life. That right there is the image of God. I mean, he is life and about life.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And then blue states have decided to go even deeper into the darkness to make, uh, abortion unfettered, basically right up until the child’s coming through the birth canal. And that to me is such evil.
John: Mm.
Jim: And we want to point out those stark differences and bring you up to date with what’s happening with the abortion pill, what the landscape looks like. It’s more of an information day on the issue of life. And we want to equip you so that you’re able to have those conversations, informed conversations that allow you to speak with clarity, with professional input from Dr. Bill Lile and from Robyn about what’s going on. So I’m looking forward to it. Let me tell you, part of that energy comes from me here in Colorado where we had the governor sign a state bill that basically now is state-funded abortion here in Colorado. And, uh, you know, that’s egregious. We have always kind of drawn that line as a country to not require taxpayers to pay for abortion. In these blue states, that’s beginning to erode at the state level.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And they’re finding ways around that. And let me give you a quick example. The rationale for that with the governor was it’s cheaper to abort a baby than to help that mom birth the baby and then, you know, provide all the indigent m- uh, support-
John: Mm.
Jim: … that that baby’s gonna need. It was like a million dollars difference, 6 million versus 5 million. Think of that economic decision. I’m telling you what, I get so riled on this. So I asked the team, “Let’s just check it out. What’s the lifetime value of that baby becoming a taxpayer?” Oh, get this, $580,000.
John: Mm.
Jim: So let’s move away from made in His image, all the spiritual truth of why a child should be allowed to come into this life.
John: Mm.
Jim: Go to the economics of it. These people are, I mean, they’re all out for abortion.
John: It’s a totally scam argument.
Jim: All out for abortion. I mean, what economically thinking person would, uh, kill a human being that would supply the state $580,000 over their lifetime in taxes-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … for $10,000? I mean, that is a radical agenda, and that’s the kind of information-
John: Mm.
Jim: … we want to bring to you today.
John: Well, we have two guests, as we’ve said. Uh, Dr. Lile joins us from the East Coast today. Uh, he’s on the road right now. He’s got a private practice, an OB-GYN practice in Florida. He’s licensed in multiple states. He’s delivered over 5,000 babies.
Jim: Yahoo (laughs).
John: He’s a national speaker and he’s been here before. You can learn more about, uh, Dr. Bill Lile at prolifedoc.org. And Robyn Chambers has been, uh, here on the team for, uh, decades, several decades. She’s the vice president of Advocacy for Children here at Focus, leading a team that is dedicated to equipping and activating people to stand for life.
Jim: Dr. Lile and Robyn, welcome to Focus. Good to have you back, both of you.
Robyn Chambers: Thank you for having me.
Dr. Lile: Thank you very much.
Jim: Let me, let me pull in some recent data and really the impetus for this discussion today, because there was a, a amazing, uh, study released recently by the Ethics and Public Policy Center, the EPPC. And it’s groundbreaking because what they did is g- they looked at, I think, over 800,000, 850,000 women in this study to determine the impact of the abortion pill. Why don’t you, uh, kinda lay that out for us? What was the study? The methodology? People are now, the journalists are now beginning to attack, certainly Planned Parenthood beginning to attack the methodology and this is really not a solid study. But as a doctor in reading the material, how do you read the study?
Dr. Lile: Well, we look at the study, it included over 865,000 women who had taken the abortion pill. A huge study. In fact, this study was 28 times larger than the combination of all 10 studies, which led to the approval of the abortion pill. They looked at the Medicaid charts, they looked at the private insurance charts, they looked at the military charts of people who had received the abortion pill, but then presented for complications afterwards. They looked at diagnosis codes, they look at prescriptions for the abortion pill, and they also looked at procedures that were bein’ done. And the results were stunning. They found that 11% of these patients had serious adverse events. They didn’t look at the mild. They didn’t look at the se- the moderate. They looked at the serious or life-threatening events only. And what they found was that 11% of all these women had a serious reaction. I mean, there were over 40,000 people that had to go to the ER. There were 28,000 people that presented with hemorrhage. 4, 24,000 needed to have an additional surgery like a DNC. But then what was really significant is they found that over 3,000 people had ectopic pregnancy. And we know that we expected that because the number one killer of women in the first trimester of pregnancy is a ruptured ectopic or tubal pregnancy. One in one hundred women, between 1 and 2% of all pregnant women, the pregnancies will be ectopic or tubal. So when the abortion pill is goin’ out by the hundreds and thousands of pills, we know that one out of one hundred of those women will statistically have a life-threatening ectopic pregnancy. And the abortion pill is in no way a treatment for an ectopic pregnancy. Women are being harmed, and it’s much higher than the rate of what we were told to expect, which was 0.5%. It is actually 11% are being harmed.
Jim: Bill, let me ask you this. Uh, you know, over the last 25 years, I think this, uh, pharmaceutical solution has been used, but the access for women has increased because the abortion industry has lobbied, I think in many ways, and big pharma probably as well, to make it more accessible. So the patients, these pregnant women take these pills home. They don’t have to be in a hospital. They don’t have to be under direct supervision of the doctor. Talk about the progression of how all of that is converged to make this far more dangerous for women than what the abortion industry is willing to talk about and why they’re attacking this study so hard.
Dr. Lile: Well, when the abortion pill was originally approved, it was only approved up to seven weeks gestation. It was mandatory that there were three visits with a physician. You had to have it either dispensed in a clinic or an office or in a hospital. You had to have an ultrasound to make sure the pregnancy was inside of the uterus. You had to have follow-up. But there were lots of restrictions. Now, the restrictions, which were meant to provide a safety net for these moms, have been dropped by the different presidents. They were dr- you know, decreased by President Clinton, decreased by Biden, and decreased by President Obama, all compromising the health and safety of the moms just because they wanted to get the abortion. The abortion, looking down the road was the high priority. That was the first priority, not the health of the women. So it’s not just available in offices, it is available mail order, it’s available mail order from other countries, India, China. You don’t know what you’re getting from these countries. But also states that have made a stance and they want to be pro-life where they put restrictions on the abortion pill. Abortion in Florida is now limited to six weeks or earlier, but now the abortion pill is being sent into Florida from other states. And 1% of the time it will be an ectopic pregnancy. And so when women are getting the abortion pill in the mail, if your daughter has a cell phone, she has access to the abortion pill and it can be mailed right to her. It’s dangerous for the moms, but it’s also always gonna be dangerous for the babies.
Jim: Let’s, uh, revisit something and was tragic. It was so sad that it happened there in Georgia, but that young, uh, woman, Amber Thurman, who did go to the doctor, she went out of state an- to get the abortion pill and then returned home and took the pills and then had complications from that, much to the, uh, proof of what you’re talking about. They blamed that on pro-life legislation in Georgia that she didn’t have access. But you countered that and said, “No, this, it looks like perhaps more of a malpractice situation where the doctors didn’t stay close to their patient.” Unpack that for us, because in the media, all we’re hearing is, “This is evidence of terrible states that restrict abortion.”
Dr. Lile: Amber Nicole Thurman tragically is dead. Amber found out that she was pregnant with twins. They were nine weeks along. She knew she could not get an abortion in the state of, uh, Georgia because they have a heartbeat law. It’s meant to protect the lives of babies. So she made an appointment out of state in North Carolina. She drove to North Carolina, hit a lot of traffic. She was scheduled for a surgical abortion, but she arrived too late so they could not fit her into the surgical schedule. So they provided her with the abortion pill. They gave her instructions and she drove back to Georgia. The clinic never called to see how she’s doing. But 72 hours, three days later, while she was back home in Georgia, she was really sick. She had a belly pain, she had a fever. She went to the local emergency room. The emergency room evaluated her. They performed an ultrasound and it showed two babies on the inside. But here’s the real key, neither baby had a heartbeat. They called the OB who happened to be on call. The OB called in some antibiotics and said he would see her the next morning. Well, he didn’t see her the next morning. He didn’t see her for 20 hours later. When he did see her, she was septic. She was in shock. He would schedule her to have a DNC to remove these dead babies from the inside of her uterus. And that would be a good step. But it was very, very late when they actually put her under anesthesia. The anesthesia doc said, “Hey, we are losing her. She is really going bad.” They actually made an incision to do a hysterectomy. Then they got inside. Not only was the uterus infected, the bowel was infected, and she was in septic shock. Sadly, Amber Nicole Thurman died there on the operating room table, not because of a heartbeat law in the state of Georgia, but because of medical malpractice on the part of this physician. And also because of a complication from the abortion pill. Neither baby had a heartbeat. And that was documented. So we cannot blame a heartbeat law that was passed in the state of Georgia, which was meant to defend and protect God’s pre-born in the womb.
Jim: And in that context, Dr. Lile, when you look at, um, surgery of any kind, you know, those, those drugs that are going to, uh, do hopefully miraculous things in your body, but also come at great risk. I’m thinking of a stroke patient that has to sign a release to get that injection, which thins out your blood to the point you have to be under supervision so that you do not harm yourself. They don’t let you go home. You have to have that at a hospital. Speak to the politics of this. Where is the medical community going when they’re gonna release a woman that has a, now through this study has an 11% chance of having a serious situation arise by taking that pill at home? Why is the medical community capitulating about politics?
Dr. Lile: The end goal is they want more abortions. They want to attack the image of God in the womb. The safety of the moms is really secondary. The abortion pill has been available. It is widely available. The number of abortions have actually gone up since the Dobbs decision. And we see over one million reported abortions each year. And we know that the reported abortions are over 63% of the time going to be with the abortion pill. But now we have great evidence that is a lot more dangerous. Not 22% higher, but 22 times the risk of severe adverse reactions for women than what we had previously been told. So we need to make an adjustment. We need to make a change.
Jim: Well, and we need to be honest with women and what their risks are.
Dr. Lile: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that’s the whole point. The fact that, uh, Planned Parenthood and their allies are coming against this report says it all. And I’m so appreciative of you giving us your time. You’re gonna hang with us here. I do want to turn to Robyn. That was a long (laughs)-
Robyn: (laughs)
Jim: … medical debrief we got from you, Bill, but I so appreciate it. Robyn, y- you’re the woman at the table. I mean, how does this make you feel when you come in the doors every day at Focus fighting for women, A, to make the right decision, you know? Of course abortion is an option, but having that child, keeping that child, allowing that child to live through adoption, all better options than terminating the life of the child. And you’re doing that each and every day as you fight for this. What is your response to what Dr. Lile has said with, um, that gross misuse of the abortion pill and the harm it is to women?
Robyn: I think it’s really easy to think immediate anger. And I think that would be very fair to say maybe righteous anger.
Jim: I think I’m leaning that way.
Robyn: Yeah (laughs).
Jim: Can you feel it?
Robyn: Yes.
Jim: Mm.
Robyn: But it also makes me very sad. It makes me sad that women are being lied to and told, “This is, these two little pills will fix a problem.” So we’re calling pregnancy something that’s made in the image of God, a- a- you know, assigned, you know, our, our value is who we are made in the image of God. But the sadness comes from a woman who feels like that’s her only choice. Where’s her support system? Where’s someone who comes alongside not just her body saying, “Yay, we’re pregnant,” but where’s her support system to say, “Just can you, can you just stop for a moment, take a breath and talk to someone, talk to, um, f- hopefully father of the baby, her parents, siblings, a friend, a pastor.” The fact that she feels like this is her only option makes me incredibly sad because something’s happened in her life where she doesn’t feel like she has the support to, to have this baby. Whether she chooses to parent or make an adoption plan, there’s a sadness, a deep sadness there where she doesn’t have that, that support.
Jim: And you’ve met with so many of these women and, you know, you’re over Option Ultrasound, our project to put ultrasound machines in pregnancy resource centers around the country. And My Choice Network, which is to kinda capture these independent, uh, pregnancy centers and get under an umbrella, which is My Choice Network. Speak to that success. Just going toe to toe with Planned Parenthood right here from Focus on the Family.
Robyn: You know, that’s one of the things that I absolutely love about my, what I do every day. You know, Option Ultrasound, when we first launched that 21 years ago, um, we thought at the time, “Oh, it was just to show a woman what was going on inside her body.” An- and fast forward 21 years where, you know, Dr. Lile was talking about the abortion pill, it’s so much more important now to have that ultrasound when you’re talking about is the baby still alive? Is it ectopic? Is it a viable pregnancy? And our pregnancy centers have stepped into that and said, “We’re all in. We’re under the supervision of a physician. We have our DMS’. We have nurses.” This, what we’re providing through pregnancy centers because of Option Ultrasound, that’s true healthcare. This lie that women are being told that this little pill or these two pills will fix something, that’s not healthcare. And Focus was on the front lines. We were the very first ones to do any kind of, of medical grants to a pregnancy center. And Jim, we do machines, we do nurses training salaries, we do salaries for extended hours, we do abortion pill reversal training. Focus was on the frontline in doing that before anyone thought about it.
Jim: And there are others that are fighting for this, prolifedoc.org, Bill. I mean, they’re… The good thing about the effort, there’s so many organizations and so many physicians and others that are in the fight, so to speak. And, and we’re one of those cogs in the wheel. But we are really happy with where things have gone. Speak to My Choice Network and what we’re achieving there.
Robyn: That was one of the things we talked about. Um, you know, there’s a generation of young women who’ve really never not had a phone in their hand. Um, and so they have instant information, instant, uh, what they call solid information. And so we thought, “If there’s a way to reach her on her phone and tell her, ‘Guess what? There’s someone besides Planned Parenthood that you can talk to. Talk to someone who’s not gonna make money from your decision.'” And so doing that through the My Choice Network, we handle all of the digital client marketing for pregnancy centers that have come through Option Ultrasound. And everything we do is to reach that young woman. When she’s panicking. And Jim, you know my story. I’ve been there, there is a panic. There is a, “I gotta fix this, I gotta get information right away.” She’s scrolling on her phone and she sees an ad that says “You’re pregnant. Got questions?” You know, all of the different things that are going through her mind. And so she goes on her phone, she finds My Choice Network ’cause we are on, um, dating websites, we are on games. And so if you’re playing a game on your phone, we have ads on those games and it reaches her to say, “There’s a pregnancy center right down the road from you. And guess what? Their services are free. They’re confidential. They’re private.” And the women that go into the center say, ‘I’ve never felt so safe.'”
Jim: Mm.
Robyn: That word is so important to her, to feel safe in that decision-making process. We have almost 2,800 pregnancy centers that we’re working with. We can reach her on her phone through My Choice Network and get her into one of those centers.
Jim: Yeah. That is so good. Bill, you got any perspective? You work with a lot of pregnancy centers. Is that what you would, uh, say as well?
Dr. Lile: Oh, there’s over 2,000 pregnancy centers around the country. And they are meeting the needs of these moms. They’re providing education. They’re providing ultrasounds to see this baby, this blessing that’s there on the inside. They’re providing them with healthcare screenings. They’re also having nurses and nurse practitioners there to help these moms. They are there to really be a holistic approach to meeting all of these needs, whether it is housing, whether it is food, whether it is education. Planned Parenthood has one goal. They want to get the abortion. With these pregnancy centers, if the woman feels that she cannot raise this child on her own, they will associate them with somebody wi- who can adopt that baby. We have over a million abortions performed each year in the United States. We have over a million people that are on lists trying to adopt a baby. We need to match them up.
John: Mm.
Jim: Yeah. I, I think that’s the greatest t- uh, potential success we could have, is just creating a network to match that up. Robyn, it’s something you’re working on.
Robyn: It is. We noticed that pregnancy centers weren’t really sharing the adoption conversation. And so you start asking questions and they believe in it, a hundred percent believe in it. But the comments was, “I don’t feel equipped. I don’t feel equipped to have that conversation.” So, uh, about six months ago, we started doing regional trainings f- to really teach pregnancy centers, client advocates, nurses, directors how to have that conversation. And so that has been very, very successful. And so we’re moving into a potential, um, partnership with Lifeline Adoption Services. And they’ve said, “Hey, why don’t we do this training digitally via Zoom? We can reach 10 times the amount of people that way than we could, you know, in person.” But then what I love is they said, “Robyn, you can have access, Focus on the Family can have access to the prospective adoptive parents on our list.” And we can start driving these young women, um, in a good way, driving these young women to connect with a, a couple in their community.
Jim: Willing to adopt.
Robyn: This… Right.
Jim: Yeah.
Robyn: This is I can choose. And Jim, that’s so important for her in that, in that process of feeling like everything’s outta control to tell her you have choices that don’t include terminating your baby. You have a choice. You can choose the mom and dad, you can see where they live, where your child will go to school. All those things that put her back in control and she knows that her child’s going into a safe environment.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Yeah. Dr. Lile, uh, we’re nearing the end here, unfortunately, because there’s so much content that we can talk about. But you have a story about a woman who contacted you after seeing a roadside billboard. What happened in that context and what did she say?
Dr. Lile: Yeah. She was driving back from receiving the abortion pill in Jacksonville, Florida, heading back to her home in, uh, the Sandestin area. And she saw a first billboard put up by one pregnancy center, and it said, “Heartbeat at 18 days.” She kept driving. She saw another billboard on the other side of I-10, which said, “Your mom chose life. You should too.” That was enough to affect her heart and affect her mind. She pulled over at the next area. She started to Google. She actually Googled abortion pill antidote, re- led her to the website, abortionpillreversal.com. She called them, gave her her information, asked about reversal. They contacted her with me. We were able to provide her with the antidote, and we were able to reverse that pregnancy, uh, termination. And she actually delivered a healthy baby boy, which they named William after me.
Jim: (laughs)
Dr. Lile: And then they were back in the office two and a half…. Yeah, two and a half years later, they were back in the office. I got a picture with baby William with mom and with dad, who actually got married during the pregnancy of baby William. But they were back in the office because they were pregnant again. And I got to recently deliver that little baby girl. So we’re not just saving that one pregnancy, we’re not just saving that one teeny-tiny little heart. We have, we are saving an entire generation, an entire family unit, which is gonna be multi-generational. Women der- deserve better than abortion. And babies are a blessing. We know that. But they’re also good for economies. Japan and South Korea realized they have a lot more old people than young people. They’re actually developing robots will, will provide healthcare, changing and rolling-
Jim: Mm.
Dr. Lile: … and moving ba- you know, older people that are in their beds. So a society and a country needs babies. Babies are good for an economy, they are good for a country.
Jim: Well, and we just go back to scripture to realize that, you know? Babies are a blessing from the Lord (laughs). And it’d be nice if this country and the world can regather themselves and, uh, really defeat the enemy’s desire to steal, kill, and destroy.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Which is what John 10:10 says, “He’s come to steal, kill and destroy. And the Lord’s come that we might have life and life more abundantly.” And I, I don’t see a greater spiritual or practical battleground than this debate on abortion. I mean, it is clear as day. And, uh, you know, I, I think for so many Christians maybe that, that don’t see it the same way, they don’t think it’s a big issue, that don’t see, uh, being made in his image as the really the, the distinction in this battle that every human being is made in the image of God and deserves our respect, our care. You’ve given your life to that, Bill, as an OB-GYN to the mom and that baby. And it, it does seem like there’s just such spiritual warfare toward that child that regardless of logic they want that woman to terminate that baby for whatever reason. And it is, it is a battle. And I’m so glad you’re in it. Robyn, I’m so glad you’re in it. Thank you for being a partner in this with us. There’s so much more and what we’ll do, hopefully w- we’ll be able to come back in a few months and again update, uh, the country on where we’re at. Thank you, Bill, for being with us in the middle of a medical conference that you’re at. Thank you for carving that time out. Appreciate it. Robyn, thank you for what you do each and every day, walking in, proclaiming life and going after it in the face of a headwind with this culture. And I’m hopeful, uh, Bill, like you described, physicians that came around and realized, “Oh, we better wash our hands.” I mean, that’s, like, ignorance. This is a known thing that they’re doing. But nonetheless, that the scales from the eyes of these professionals would fall off and they would realize the evil that they are doing. Yeah, that’s the place that we have to pray for and hope that our country can get to. So again, thank you both for being with us.
Dr. Lile: You’re welcome.
Robyn: You’re welcome.
Jim: Well, John, I hope people feel informed.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And that was the goal today, to give you an update on what’s happening in the country, where the debate line is, what’s happening practically. Robyn, again, I so appreciate what you do each and every day. And now it’s time to step up. I mean, we are putting all our effort into this battle because we think it is the difference spiritually u- u- toward everything. I mean, being for life versus being for death.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But we need your help. $60 is what it costs to save a baby’s life through Option Ultrasound and so much more. The My Choice Network and the development of that adoption list that we’re talking about. Can you help us with $60? $60 a month would be wonderful. Save a baby every month. This is one of the best things you can, uh, invest in at Focus on the Family. Robyn, I’ll give you a chance. Make the pitch.
Robyn: Right now, there’s-
Jim: (laughs)
Robyn: … over 530,000 babies have been saved. Jim, that’s over a million people impacted by Focus on the Family for life.
Jim: Yeah.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That is so cool. And we want to see a million babies saved by the time I’m done here at Focus-
Robyn: (laughs)
Jim: … which, you know, is just a few years away, I think. But Robyn, uh, thank you for every day coming in and doing that. And can you jump on board? I, I, I will beg you to jump on board on this one.
John: Mm.
Jim: Because we need to help these women and we need to help save these babies lives.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Help us.
John: Take a stand today for life. Uh, join Focus on the Family. Uh, donate, uh, and make a difference today. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. And online you can, uh, donate of course. And, uh, that website is focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And, uh, Jim, we’ve got lots of resources there. I mean, Robyn’s team has populated-
Jim: Uh.
John: … a website full of great pro-life material. Opportunities for you to volunteer, to educate others, to step up and wrap around a woman in her point of need. Uh, there’s just a lot to be done. Uh, again, we’re here to help you in that. Stop by our website today. Oh, and by the way, we’re gonna have a link to that study that Jim and Dr. Bill talked about earlier in this conversation. Uh, we’ll link over to that as well. And that link will be at our website. And on behalf of the entire team, thank you for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
