Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Preview:

Erin Smalley: Satan knows the power of a marriage. I mean, it’s too individuals becoming one. And if they’re serving God and His Holy Spirit is part of that, that, I mean, that’s a powerful force. And the enemy knows what we are capable of when we are in healthy, sustaining marriages, that he’s afraid of that.

End of Preview

John Fuller: A really important perspective on marriage, isn’t it? Uh, that’s Erin Smalley, and she and her husband Dr. Greg Smalley want to help young couples particularly, become a powerful force for good in God’s kingdom. Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller and we’re featuring part two of a conversation, uh, with the Smalleys, and we’re so glad you can join us.

Jim Daly: Last time we heard some great advice and encouragement based on a wonderful book that Greg and Erin have written, called Ready to Wed: 12 Ways to Start a Marriage You’ll Love. And I really like that title, that says it all.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And if you missed the program last time, contact us to get an audio copy, or check out the previous episode on YouTube. Or better yet, get our app so you can listen to the great content whenever and wherever you want to. And let me just say this conversation with Greg and Erin is relevant for the parents of young adults too. Uh, John, you and I both are living in that space where our kids are looking at, you know, serious relationships.

John: Yeah.

Jim: And you’re thinking, okay, is this the one?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But, uh, you know, we’ll see. And then obviously, you’ve had that experience where they come home and say, “Hey, I think I’ve met the person-

John: Hmm.

Jim: … I’m gonna marry.”

John: Yeah.

Jim: We haven’t hit that quite yet, but it’s around the corner.

John: Yeah. And this is really solid content today, for those who are preparing for marriage, and those of us who have been married for a long time.

Jim: Yeah. (laughs)

John: The principles apply-

Jim: Good reminders.

John: … so, uh, get a copy of Greg and Erin’s book, Ready to Wed and find out more about all the resources Focus on the Family has to strengthen your marriage, when you stop by focusonthefamily.com\broadcast. All right Jim, here’s how you picked up the conversation with Greg and Erin Smalley, on today’s episode of Focus on the Family.

Jim: Uh, Greg and Erin, the conversation last time was really fascinating. Uh, we talked about God’s design for marriage, and the need for commitment. And that always brings up the question of divorce. In Matthew, Jesus explains that divorce is the result of our hard hearts. Um, that’s tough, but it’s what He said. Uh, you guys often talk about that, and your book gives specific, uh, reasons why that happens. Uh, why do people’s hearts grow harder towards each other?

Dr. Greg Smalley: It’s such a fascinating verse, Matthew 19:8, where Jesus is saying, in the beginning of your relationship you were open, your hearts were wide open, you were love- you had love towards each other. But then something happens that ultimately creates a- a hardness of the heart. And when we work with premarital couples, there are two things specifically that we’re trying to help them to understand. First of all, is that couples allow small little relationship germs to-

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: … invade their marriage. That’s first and foremost. There are some things that start happening, very small things-

Jim: Well, give me an example of what that can be.

Greg: … yeah. And out of Song of Solomon’s 2:15, I love this verse where it says, “Catch all the foxes, those little foxes, before they ruin the vineyard of love.” These little small, little foxes are things like, you talked about selfishness, poorly managed conflict, unrealistic expectations, um, in-laws-

Jim: Verbal attack.

Greg: … can be a large fox-

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: … at times. (laughs)

Erin: (laughs)

Greg: But it’s in other words, sometimes couples sort of, uh, guard their relationship from the big things, but often, what kills a marriage in terms of ultimately the hardening of heart are these little small things.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Greg: Like, when Erin does something and hurts me, or I hurt her and- and we just ignore it, so we just move on. Or I’m not serving her, you know, I’m not sacrificing for her like you talked about in the beginning. It’s these small little things that tend to really destroy marriages, because it- it hardens hearts over time.

Jim: Huh.

Erin: Mm-hmm. And then, ultimately what ends up happening is that we stop investing in this relationship. So, where the little foxes are coming but then our hearts start to close. And you know, eventually they can harden, and thus we stop taking care of this marriage relationship. And investing in it and really being intentional around that.

Jim: Uh, let me pursue that a little bit. Because I think in some ways what you’re saying is, you emotionally detach, you pull in, you- you’re no longer engaged or investing-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … in the relationship. That’s a dangerous place to be, isn’t it?

Erin: Well it is, because your heart begins to grow cold towards each other. And thus, you’re not willing to sacrifice, you’re not willing to sit down and have a heart-to-heart conversation. You know, it’s nearly impossible because your heart’s not in the game.

Jim: Right. So, for a young couple who is looking to get married, ho- how do you teach them to think of the little foxes, to be mindful of these little things?

Greg: Yeah, I think first of all, we need to teach our young couples that love is not self-sustaining. That is such a huge myth.

Jim: It- it- but at that age, it’s almost unbelievable. You say that and it bounces off of me, like I’ve got a love shield around me. (laughs)

Greg: Mm-hmm.

Jim: (laughs)

Erin: Ping.

Jim: Because it doesn’t make sense-

Greg: Yeah, yeah.

Jim: … I’m so infatuated, I’m so in love with my fiance or my-

John: You don’t know how deep our love is, yeah.

Jim: … Ye- yeah, you- that- they just don’t have a good relationship like we have.

Greg: Yeah. Well-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Even though they’re 40 and we’re 20.

Greg: … I think part of the message that we’re trying to teach our kids is that love is not self-sustaining, we have to constantly be investing and doing things proactively to keep our marriage strong. You can’t put sh- the marriage like you can a car on autopilot, on cruise control, there is none of that. And that’s one of those myths and fallacies out there about marriage.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: That somehow we can just be together and feel in love, and then do all these other things, life, and work and kids and church and, the list goes on and on.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: And then somewhere along the line, we all of a sudden start drifting apart and there’s a slow fade. And all of a sudden our love grows cold-

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: … and our hearts harden. And that’s the death of a marriage.

Jim: Hmm. Uh, Greg and Erin, you talk in your book Ready to Wed about 12 ways to have a great marriage. So, the- these are great tools for young people who are- again are engaged or thinking about it. Let’s hit some of those 12, we’re not gonna cover them all. Let’s post it on the website-

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … uh, John, so people can-

John: Sure.

Jim: … get a look at them. But this is what you’re delving into in the book. Why don’t you go ahead and give us the ones that you feel are most, uh, important.

Greg: And what’s cool about the book, how we divided it out, it- it’s very intentional. We- the two big broad messages, that one, you need to invest in your marriage proactively every day. But then you have to know how to work through problems when they come either through conflict or externally from something else. So, those are the two big things, if you learn nothing else.

Jim: How to invest and how to resolve conflict.

Greg: Exactly. In terms of the investing part-

Erin: You know, uh, one of the things in this book that’s different than a lot of other premarital books is that we really focus on, what does leaving and cleaving really mean? You know, what does that mean to leave our former life, and then to cleave to our new spouse? When you’re leaving your former life, you’re- that means that you’re leaving your singleness, you’re leaving this adolescent, you know, kind of state. Our friend Ted Cunningham talks about that so often young people, that they’ll get stuck in this state of adolescence. But we’re leaving that behind when we’re stepping into a marriage relationship. We are- we’re taking a step into adulthood.

Jim: Hmm.

Erin: And that we’re gonna be adults in this marriage relationship.

Jim: So, you have to prepare as that young person, to make that step though?

Erin: Absolutely. There’s so much that can be done before you actually say, “I do,” to prepare to have a healthy relationship. So many different ways of looking at, how are we gonna do this? We’re planning how this relationship is gonna play out in the months to come.

Jim: In that regard, is the leaving and cleaving attacking or going after that selfish aspect. I’m thinking of people I know that are in their 20s or even 30s that have been married eight, 10 years, and he’s still caught up in video games, he’s still acting like a l- you know, a 16-year-old. And it’s driving mostly wives crazy-

Erin: (laughs)

Jim: … um, because they’re not… they’re- it’s like, the argument is, “You’re not growing up. Grow up. Help me here.

Erin: (laughs) Yeah, I can remember our first year of marriage living at Denver Seminary. Literally taking Greg’s Nintendo and hiding it in the laundry basket-

Jim: (laughs)

Erin: … underneath the laundry. (laughs)

Greg: She hid it from me.

Jim: Did he- did he find it? (laughs)

Erin: He did. (laughs) He was like, “What’s this doing in there?” I’m like, “I don’t know.”

Jim: Oh, he was happy. Now it’s a hunt.

Greg: It was a small apartment, so-

Jim: (laughs)

Erin: (laughs)

Greg: … inevitably I was gonna find it.

Erin: Yeah, there wasn’t many places. (laughs)

Jim: But you can relate to that-

Erin: Yeah.

Jim: … that’s my point. And- and, uh, it is something you have to do with some forethought with with, um-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … you know, thinking it through. What am I really stepping out of and into.

Greg: You know, for me, here’s what rocked my world when I read this study. Because I w- wish that I had known this before we got married, and when we were newly married. The studies say that it takes at least nine to 14 years for two individuals to stop thinking about themselves as individuals, and to start thinking about themselves as one. Think about that.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Greg: That is a- almost a decade and a half, nine to 14 years to go from me, me, me, single lifestyle thinking about me. Plus you add in for young couples… I mean, as a guy, I always tell women who are getting married (laughs) that man, you’ve got to give him a lot of grace. I think for a guy, it takes us into our 30s-

Jim: (laughs) We’re a little slower.

Erin: (laughs)

Greg: … before we- we really start to grow and mature in a way that is best for our relationship. It just takes a long time, that needs to be our expectation going in. This whole leave and cleave thing, as God talks about it, leaving mom and dad, cleaving to our spouse so that we become one. Just understand that takes about a decade.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: You’re gonna have to give each other a whole lot of grace-

Jim: You know, let-

Greg: … and a whole to of time to do that.

Jim: … and it’s very reasonable. And I think it’s a good place to start, that’s the beginning point. Uh, when you look down the list I wanna grab one, which is honoring each other. ‘Cause I think in those early years when, uh, you know, difficulties come, you know, you’re squeezing the toothpaste in the wrong spot…

Greg: (laughs)

Erin: (laughs)

Jim: I mean, it sounds so silly, why does that even matter. But Jean and I have a constant… (laughs) And we’ve been married 28 years-

John: It still happens in our household too. (laughs)

Jim: … for some reason she- she doesn’t put the cap on the toothpaste, it drives me… I’m the one hunting down the cap on the counter, going-

Erin: Well, that’s why you’ve got get the one that, it’s attached-

Greg: (laughs)

Jim: … (laughs)

Erin: … and you just flip it down. I mean, that could solve it all.

Greg: You both get your own toothpaste, that’s how we solved it.

Erin: That’s how we did it, yeah.

Greg: There’s no argument now.

Jim: But you know, it’s not gonna lead to a family crisis, other than a little irritation.

Greg: Sure.

Jim: But it’s those kinds of things-

Greg: Small foxes, little foxes.

Jim: … you- you’ve got to think about, and you’ve got to be talking through. And I don’t mean to, you know, diminish serious issues. But honoring each other-

Greg: Hmm.

Jim: … um, talk about how we do that.

Erin: You know, so often, especially as wives, we come into marriage thinking you know, we can just change just this little thing about him. And you know, influence him in this way-

Jim: He’s a project.

Erin: … That’s right.

Jim: (laughs)

Erin: But you know what, uh, i- unfortunately, it really doesn’t work because as soon as he starts feeling that, what is he gonna do? He’s gonna resist that. Because how many of us like to say you know, “Oh, if you just did it just like this instead.” You know, and often it’s not spoken, it’s these little things that we do to manipulate the relationship. But what about how God made him? I’m not saying that you know, you can just go, “Oh, this is just how God made me,” but really recognizing that we’re both bringing differences into this relationship. And that they’re gifts to this relationship, and seeing that it brings a beautiful balance.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: I love how God, when He created man and woman stepped back and said, “This is good.”

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Greg: I mean, the way that God made us so different in personality and gender differences, that’s a good thing. And yet, when we get frustrated, like, by how we do the toothpaste or the toilet paper, or the list goes on and on, remember those differences are the gift, that’s a good thing.

Jim: (laughs)

Greg: And we need to value those things.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Greg: Now we need to- to learn how do we talk through those when they’re creating challenges for us. But I think it always has to start from, I- I want to honor my wife, I want to cherish those differences. I want to- I want to value who she is. And the best way that I’ve learned to do this literally is, I have a list of all these things that I love about Erin. These are my favorite things about Erin, and I look at that periodically. Just to be reminded, you know, yeah, she’s pretty amazing.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: Now, she frustrates me at times. (laughs) She drives me nuts other times.

Jim: (laughs)

Greg: It’s just life, I mean, let’s be real.

Jim: Erin’s making a good face right now.

Erin: (laughs) Yeah.

Greg: I mean, but let’s be… So do I, I drive her crazy.

Erin: Would you like to share some of those right now Greg? (laughs)

Greg: No. (laughs)

Jim: (laughs) Oh, please do.

Greg: I mean- (laughs)

Erin: Yeah. (laughs)

Greg: But I mean, that’s life-

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: … that we will irritate each other. But don’t ever let those differences become things you see as negative.

John: Mm-hmm. Some good reminders from Greg and Erin Smalley, about the importance of honor in your marriage. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And today we’re reviewing portions of a book that the Smalleys wrote called Ready to Wed: 12 Ways to Start a Marriage You’ll Love. Get a copy, uh, today from us when you call 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459, or stop by focusonthefamily.com\broadcast. And now the conclusion of our conversation with Dr. Greg and Erin Smalley on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. As we’re talking, uh, Jim yesterday, I mentioned that, uh, we have four young adults in my family. And, uh, one of them has a relationship going, and I’m thinking-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

John: … I know that you’re able to spend time talking right now. And this is one of the 12, is communication. I know that you can do that right now, but when you get married, stuff happens and you can’t quite spend hours thinking about and talking with your spouse. How do you foster good communication, uh, with a couple that is perhaps working and then maybe even kids come along?

Greg: You know, one of the things that I saw the other day that again, blew my mind, is that the average couple spends maybe an hour a week, kind of in- in these kind of proactive talking, spending time together. But the average couple who’s involved in an affair spends 15 hours a week in those kinds of activities.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: As much as it’s easy to say, “Well, we’re just so busy and don’t have the time,” man, couples are finding the time. I want to pursue her in that same way-

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: … and never go, “Well, I just don’t have time,” or, “It’s so busy.” The best thing that I can do as far as communication is to… My attitude is that I want to know her, and I want to be known by her.

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Greg: I want her to know me. So, I want to spend time asking her questions, getting to know her. And keep updated and current, but I also need to be willing to be known, to share what’s going on in my life.

Jim: Greg, uh, when I hear that, it sounds really good. (laughs) But it sounds exhausting to a lot of men to ask those kind of questions.

Greg: Hmm.

Jim: Are we just being lazy?

Greg: We’re not being lazy, I just think we get so busy, there’s so many other things that are taking our time. And I think that so many people buy into that love is self-sustaining that I don’t really have to do much for us to be okay. That we can put the marriage on autopilot, cruise control. It’s just… That’s not the answer.

Jim: It’s a good “man answer,” let me ask Erin. Erin, are we being lazy?

Erin: Well, you know what, it’s not lazy.

Jim: (laughs)

Erin: (laughs) I agree, I agree with Greg on that. That it’s not being lazy, it’s that often we- we just assume that everything’s gonna be okay. You know, I-

Jim: That’s true.

Erin: … I’ve got to take care of the kids because they have these needs that are, you know, raging right in front of me. They’re hungry, they’re thirsty, you know, they’ve got to go to practice. But it’s really-

Greg: They need a diaper change, whatever.

Erin: … (laughs)

Jim: Well, a- and let me say this with all seriousness, uh, right now the divorces that are occurring are catching a lot of husbands a- by surprise. They’re kind of in the autopilot mode, you know. “Of course this was forever, I told you I loved you at the altar.”

Greg: (laughs).

Jim: “Yes, we’ve got kids, I’ve got my work, uh, I thought we loved each other, what are you doing?” Is that a fair statement? I mean, women are really starving-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … and husbands aren’t seeing it or getting it.

Erin: Mm-hmm. Because as women, we want to connect at that heart level. We want to connect through conversation, through emotional connection. And when there’s not the intentional mindset that we have to take care of this relationship from both spouses… Because Greg can have that attitude that, “I told you I loved you, you know, we’re committed for a lifetime. I don’t need to do anything else.” But as women, also prioritizing this relationship above the kids, above girlfriends, above all these other things that steal our time, you know.

Greg: Yeah, I’m watching cell phones-

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: … in just- in this day and age, just how readily available the texting-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Greg: … the emails, the Facebook, the whatever, I mean, I’m watching that happen t- for a lot of women who are investing a tremendous amount of time in that. I think guys, we can compartmentalize our life, and so we can get involved in work and- and just providing-

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: … and- and yet I think for both, that we need to step back and realize that marriage will never be sustained off of a few minutes-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Greg: … here and there-

Jim: Well-

Greg: … of meaningful interaction.

Jim: … and to John’s point about developing positive communication, one of your 12 ways to have a great marriage. Um, if you were talking to little Jimmy, when I was 24 and a half, and Jean and I had met-

Greg: (laughs)

Jim: … and you were doing our premarital counseling, how would you teach a rather self-absorbed young man, who doesn’t understand women at all, to really do a better job at that?

Greg: Mm-hmm. I would point out what you’re doing right now that she loves. And I guarantee you, that little Jimmy is spending a whole lot of time asking questions, pursuing Jean, finding out about what she loves, likes, dislikes-

Erin: Mm-hmm.

Greg: … as you’re building a new relationship, and I would beg you to never lose that.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: I think curiosity is one of the best sustainers of love. When I have an attitude that one lifetime isn’t long enough for me to really get to know her, that I want to stay current and updated, then I would show you exactly how to do that. And that’s literally, by just get great at asking questions as you are married. Take moments when you’re driving in the car, take moments when you’re out on a date, and just say, “Hey, update me. Wha- what’s going on in your life?”

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: “Keep me current.” We both are always changing, and if we invest-

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: … in our relationship with that attitude of going, “Jim, look what you’re doing right now. You are doing everything you can to know her, don’t ever lose that.” And- and here’s why-

Jim: W- well, the other thing is just that effort. I can remember when we were dating. I lived in San Diego, she was in Orange County, it was about a 90-minute drive. Uh, she was working at a Vet clinic and worked the late-night shift. And so, occasionally, I’d drive up there and deliver dinner to her.

Greg: Wow.

Jim: So, when you-

Erin: See, mm-hmm.

Jim: … when you look at what you would do in courtship to prove, “I’m interested.” I mean, driving 90 miles to bring your girlfriend dinner, and then you get married and you’re going, “Eh, I don’t want to pick up those clothes.” (laughs)

Erin: (laughs)

Greg: (laughs)

Jim: I mean, it’s really different isn’t it? What happened to that 90-mile drive? (laughs)

Erin: You know, so often what we don’t address then is that what’s going on with our heart. When he starts frustrating me, when he starts disappointing me, ’cause he’s not, you know, making the effort he used to make, then you know, I’m less likely to do that as well. And our hearts start to close off. And it goes back to, you know, when our heart starts closing off we’re not willing to make that extra effort and go the extra mile.

Jim: Hmm.

Erin: And it impacts the relationship.

Jim: But let me ask you this as we’re wrapping up. T- there’s two things I want to touch on. One is the importance of premarital counseling. You’ve done research, you’ve looked at research that suggests the powerful importance of premarital counseling. Talk a bit about that.

Erin: You know, it is so clear. Again, it’s research that is very statistically found that 80% of couples who receive premarital counseling stay together.

Jim: 80%?

Erin: 80%.

Jim: Talk about what kind of premarital counseling that is. Is that an hour or is that 10 hours, is it a hundred hours?

Erin: You know, what- what we really say is eight to 10 quality hours of really delving into all the th- you the 12 different areas in Ready to Wed. You know, delving into all of those, and really looking at, what are we bringing, what is our plan, how are we gonna do this? What do we want it to even look like? You know, and discussing all the issues and the challenges that we might face.

Jim: Hmm.

Erin: And it’s an exciting time to really connect with one another, maybe with a- a therapist, a pastor, with a mentor couple who can walk with you as you engage in this such an exciting time of life.

Jim: Yeah, we- uh, Jean and I did that with, uh, probably I’m thinking about it, there are probably eight or nine couples in this class that we did. It was called Becoming One, by Jerry and Donna Lawson-

Greg: Hmm.

Jim: … in San Diego. And, uh, what was really fascinating is like, three of the couples got up after the first or second session, and walked, (laughs) and walked… And Jean and I are looking at each other like, oh my goodness. And-

Greg: So, they just walked out?

Jim: … But it- well, walked out in a sense that they’re not ready to be married.

Greg: Wow.

Erin: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jim: They gave the explanation that after going-

Greg: That’s success.

Jim: … that is.

Erin: Yes.

Jim: And the point of it, it was success. It scared us a little bit, like, uh-oh-

Greg: (laughs)

Jim: … are we hiding anything, what do we need to…? But, uh, uh, six of the nine couples continued on. But I think three of the couples actually decided it wasn’t time. And that’s a good decision, isn’t it?

Erin: Yeah, absolutely. If, you know, why would you n- answer into this marriage relationship that’s for a lifetime, if really you’re not ready? And it’s okay to not be ready.

Jim: Hmm.

Erin: You want to evaluate, is this the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with?

Jim: Ye- let’s, uh… The second point I want to make, let’s end on the stresses and the crisis that come in marriage. And hopefully you’re equipped to take care of that. Talk about that. Um, what’s the normal stuff that can really bring a marriage down?

Greg: There’s two main things. There’s going to be internal stressors and we just say, that’s the conflict, that’s the dealing with each other. And figuring out who’s doing what, and how do we blend our differences? So, there’s the internal part, but then there’s also external things that are going to hit a marriage. We- we have a- a couple-friend that right as they were about to get married, uh, his father died. So, they walked into their brand new marriage… And the story’s in the book. They walked into their brand new marriage having to deal with the death of his dad-

Jim: Mm-hmm.

Greg: … and comforting his mom. And they actually ended up moving into the mom’s basement just to be there to care for her.

Jim: Wow.

Greg: We- we know couples… In one of our seminars a couple, engaged couple came up and they’re just glowing, and typical, you know, idealistic, and this is so amazing. But he said that, “I have been given a diagnosis of an untreatable type of cancer.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: So, we’re- knowing we are going to get married, and my life will be over very shortly.

Jim: Oh my goodness.

Greg: In external stressors, all these things.

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: And that can tear at this brand new relationship. Because we’re not formed yet, remember nine to 14 years to really settle into who we are and have that strength. And so, what we’re trying to do is to share with a couple, there are gonna be both things internally you’re going to have to deal with conflict, but also, things are gonna come at you. Loss of job, um, financial difficulties-

Jim: Life.

Greg: … life.

Erin: Yeah.

Jim: Will come at you.

Greg: It’s how you then do that together, that’s the point.

Jim: Yeah.

Greg: And Erin and I dealt with- with a lot of these things. And you know, by God’s grace, we did these things together, and we had to learn. And- and yet, the cool part is, is that God promises that when we face trials that He will give us things. We get treasures from the trials that we face.

Jim: Hmm.

Greg: We’re always trying to help a couple who’s going through a big trial in their- in their marriage, that not only will sticking it out cause you to be stronger, ’cause now you’re battle-tested, but man God is gonna give you some amazing things. And you need to grab hold of those and do what we call, “Treasure hunting.” Find those things.

Jim: Well, and this is so important as we wrap up, you think about it. Um, our marriages are our witness to the world now. Um, so often I’ve sat down with people who oppose, uh, the Christian Worldview, and one of the things they’ll say to me flat out is, “You haven’t done so well with marriage in the Christian community, why not let us try?” And this is in conversations with homosexual activists. And you know what? All I can say in that environment is, “You’re right, I’m not gonna dodge it. But not living it well, doesn’t mean that God’s Word is not true.”

Greg: Right.

Jim: And that’s the best way I can respond to that.

Greg: Mm-hmm.

Jim: We have got to live this better, so that people actually look at us-

Erin: Hmm.

Jim: … and say, “They live what they say they believe.” And I guess I do mean that as a, uh, helpful constructive criticism. We have got to do the job. And by doing the job it’s what we’ve talked about these last two days, premarital counseling, uh, for those young couples who are looking to get married. Make sure you get it done. Uh, parents who encourage them to learn communication, the 12 things you can do to have a great, uh, marriage, you’re book, Ready to Wed. Uh, we are going full throttle at Focus on the Family through Greg and Erin’s leadership to help prepare couples to have that lifelong marriage that 93% of people say they want. Let’s make it happen in the Christian community. And thank you so much for being with us.

Erin: Thank you.

Greg: Thank you.

Jim: Well, that was a helpful conversation with the Smalleys these past two days. And I hope our listeners will follow up about getting a copy of their great book, Ready to Wed: 12 Ways to Start a Marriage You’ll Love. Uh, single adult and engaged couples, uh, really need to read this. Probably parents too, it helps us, uh, you know, shape some of the things we may not be doing very well, or forgot to do well. If you have a young adult in your family who’s leaning in that direction towards marriage some day soon, uh, man, this is the moment. Why not get them started out with the right, wonderful advice and insights that Greg and Erin, and the others in this, uh, terrific curriculum provide? And we’d like to put a copy of Ready to Wed into your hands when you make a monthly pledge to Focus on the Family. That kind of ongoing commitment really helps sustain our efforts to strengthen and rescue marriages. I mean, you can buy it for your church library as an example. Uh, we know from our research that we’ve helped more than 70,000 single adults over the past 12 months, just the past 12 months, helping them to grow personally and spiritually. That’s the kind of foundation they’re gonna need to have a healthy marriage, or successful life no matter what path they take in the future.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and your monthly pledge, uh, makes such a big difference. Uh, donate today, and help us continue to impact couples literally around the world. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY. 800-232-6459. Or you can donate and get the book at focusonthefamily.com\broadcast. I’m John Fuller, and thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Join us next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.