Focus on the Family with Jim Daly

Day One:

John Fuller: Imagine having a conversation with a hurting friend who feels like something’s off in their marriage. Their spouse seems distant and, maybe, involved with somebody else. And then, what if in that moment, you discover your spouse is the someone else and your spouse is being unfaithful to you. Well, that’s what we’re talking about today on this Best of 2024 episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller, and today, we’re bringing back this powerful story of betrayal and redemption.

Jim Daly: John, research shows us that, certainly, infidelity is one of several reasons divorce can happen, but this is probably the most critical thing that can happen. Even the Bible talks about this as the one reason people can leave a marriage…

John: Mm.

Jim: … is when there’s unfaithfulness. It does strike me in such a positive way when a couple can hang on because, again, it, it should not define you.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Um, and the strength of the marriages that I see that go through this are far stronger…

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … because they’re totally exposed. Right?

John: Yeah.

Jim: You really know each other after something like that. And those marriages, again, not all of them, can survive that, but those that do, man, they are bonded in a way that’s very different.

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And today, we want to talk about it. Uh, this is a, an extremely difficult issue. I’m thinking of something that we’ve, um, created called Hope Restored. It’s one of our four-day intensives that couples can go to. Many of the couples who come to our Hope Restored four-day intensive have gone through infidelity. And the great counseling staff there can unwind that and help, uh, those couples rediscover each other in intimacy and trust. It takes time…

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … to rebuild that, but…

John: Yeah.

Jim: I’m so looking forward to the program today, because again, we are in a sexually-saturated culture, and sometimes, these things happen, and I think the Lord smiles when recovery can occur.

John: Yes. And, uh, that was the case for Josh and Katie Walters, who lived this out in their own marriage. Uh, we featured their amazing story last year, and it really resonated with so many listeners and viewers. And so, uh, that’s why we’re bringing it back today. Josh and Katie serve on the staff of Seacoast Church. It’s a multi-campus ministry in South Carolina, and they’ve written a book about their journey called New Marriage, Same Couple: Don’t Let Your Worst Days Be Your Last Days. You can find out more about the book and our guests, uh, and our Hope Restored program at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. And now, here’s how we began this Best of 2024, Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.

Jim: Josh and Katie, welcome to Focus on the Family.

Josh Walters: Hi.

Katie Walters: Thank you.

Josh: Thank you so much for having us.

Katie: Thanks for having us. I’m so glad to be here.

Jim: Really good to have you. It’s so appreciated. You know, uh, when we come into a story like yours, I always want to acknowledge right at the front, the vulnerability of this. And I’ve always thought, that’s gotta be a little uncomfortable to always talk about your worst day on, on this earth, (laughs) you know, over and over again. But people do benefit from it.

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: And I’m so grateful that you guys are willing to do that.

Josh: Oh, we’re honored, too.

Jim: Yeah.

Josh: The more we have, we realize-

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … that the more people… You know, our story is a bit extreme, but most every marriage experiences places of pain that, uh, are often silent. And so, just talking-

Katie: Yeah.

Josh: … about it, we feel like it opens the door for a lot of helpful conversation for people.

Jim: Well, let’s pop the story open and start talking about, um, that revelation of the affair. Uh, John kind of described that at the beginning of the program, but Katie, um, what were the circumstances that led to your revealing of this situation? I mean, everybody’s gonna have a different way that that’s done. It’s like a fingerprint. Nothing is the same.

Katie: That’s right.

Jim: What was going on in your life? What was the day like when you told your husband, okay, we, we got a… I got a problem.

Katie: Well, I still look back at that day as such a bad miracle in a way, because, I don’t know-

Jim: A bad miracle.

Katie: A bad mira- (laughing) I don’t know how the Holy Spirit just got those words out of my mouth, because if you have ever been in a place before where you’ve hidden anything, and you’ve had this secret sin, it can feel like it’s gonna swallow you. You know? And that day, I’d actually gone to a Beth Moore simulcast, and I was in the back of an auditorium, and she said, “There’s a girl in this room that’s in a pit so deep, she can’t see her way out.” And I knew she was talking about me, because I’ve had, I had this secret life, this secret sin, you know, this communication with this man that I hadn’t told Josh about, that were also our close friends. And that night, I came home from the simulcast, again, I don’t know how I got there by myself. It wasn’t at a church we were serving at, it was a church across town. But the girl from the… The couple, the man that I was having the affair with, the girl came over to our house that night and she was just in brokenness. And she started crying, and saying, “Something’s wrong with my marriage.” You know, oftentimes, they say, women can feel there’s something going on. Something’s not right.

Jim: So, she came and both of you were there?

Katie: We were both there-

Josh: Yeah.

Katie: … sitting with her in the kitchen.

Jim: And she’s expressing this, and you know exactly what’s going on.

Josh: Which was normally not the case. It’s part of what made it the bad miracle. (laughs) But…

Katie: Yes.

Jim: Yeah.

Josh: … me happening to be there, sitting down outside with them, hearing her process, and me being confident, like, “No, there’s no one else. I know him.”

Katie: She was like, “I think there’s someone else in my husband’s life.” And Josh was like, “Absolutely not. You know, I know him. This would never happen to him.” And when she left that night, as soon as she got out the door, I looked at him and said, “What, what if it’s me? What if it’s me?”

Jim: That was the moment.

Katie: That’s all I said. That was the moment. And again, which had to have been just the spirit getting that out of me, you know, to, to say that. And that was that. We, we of- often say in these stories of confession, it’s usually the 10%, the tip of the iceberg that the person’s willing to get out, and there really needs to be grace for that in that moment…

Jim: Yeah.

Katie: … because it’s really challenging, you know, to expose the whole of the entirety of the betrayal, the hiding.

Jim: That’s a really unique situation, you know, that, the fact that she kind of sensed something was wrong, and then, that was partly due to you.

Katie: Right.

Jim: I mean, and to say that in front of the two of you, walk out. Can I ask, I mean, that period of time, how… Was this a year, six months, and, and was it just emotional, or was it the whole way?

Katie: Yes. So, it started, probably, a year earlier, emotional, just in my mind, you know? And we used to talk a lot in the, I guess, the earlier days, about 20 years ago, about emotional affairs. If you guys remember the book that came out, Every Woman’s Battle, you know, where she said, “Women, you can have this emotional affair. You start dressing for someone, you think about their life, you covet things of their life,” that was definitely happening for about a year in my own heart and mind. But not that I would’ve told anyone, you know, not girlfriends, family. Just let my mind go there. And we say to couples that the enemy, you know, even starting in Genesis 3, the enemy who is there often plants things in our minds, in our thought life. And that thought life is trying to take you somewhere. During the course of that year, I just continued to hide from Josh, but what happens was that perspective, also, starts to shift your perspective on your husband. You know? You start to see their weaknesses. Do they even love me? Do they even care about me? So, I think that was happening for about a year. But then, on May 29th, we had our third son, and he was in the NICU. He was really, really sick. So, again, you can imagine, I’m on bed rest, there’s all of that happening in the relationship. And we, also, often tell couples that the enemy is just waiting. You know, nobody wakes up thinking they’re gonna have an affair, or betray their husband, but the enemy will just be patient and wait, um, for the right opportunity. And I think that was the right opportunity in our life, because we were in such a thin place, and that’s when the man and I kind of said in this moment of the NICU, like that we had feelings for each other.

Jim: Wow.

Katie: That was at the end of May. And so, from the end of May to August 8th when I confessed, I just was in the summer of hell, is what I called it. You know, trying to constantly connect with him, the other man, and also, try to manipulate Josh and hide from him, not let anyone know. You know, he’s a pastor on staff at the church, I’m still serving in the church. So, that summer was just devastating.

Jim: Katie, let me ask you, and then, we’re obviously gonna ask you some questions, Josh.

Katie: Yeah. (laughing).

Jim: But in that context, the older I get, the more complicated these situations are.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And I think, you know, when you’re young and, and your faith is building and you’re living for the Lord, uh, that tendency towards self-righteousness can occur.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But I think the thing that I’m learning is that we, we never understand the full picture of what vulnerability has been created that nudges us toward these things.

Katie: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim: Toward the enemy lying and wait. And I, I think that’s what I so appreciate about what Jesus was expressing, that He knows our pain, He knows our shallowness…

Katie: Mm.

Jim: … He knows where we ache. And, uh, you know, He’s here to take all that away.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Jim: So, I’m just thinking of the couple that, you know, maybe, going through this right now, there is forgiveness, there is grace. And I just want to, I know we’re early into this story…

Katie: Yeah.

Jim: … but I, you know, someone’s just crushed…

Josh: Yeah.

Katie: Mm.

Jim: … because they’ve just heard the news of, last week, they went through it, and…

Katie: That’s right.

Jim: … I just, you know, be careful about how you judge others.

Katie: Yeah.

Jim: And, y- y- y- you know, the end of the story is brilliant, and it’s good, and it’s a God outcome. It doesn’t always work out that way. So, Josh, coming your direction…

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … um, I mean, the door slams. In the next few minutes, Katie turns to you and says, “What if that’s me?” And what did you say? “What do you mean, what if that’s you?”

Josh: (laughing) That’s exactly what I said.

Jim: Yeah. That seems right.

Josh: And so, you know, I remember much of that night and like HD in terms of sitting down, emotions flaring, all of a sudden, we’re all out in the front yard. Um-

Jim: All four of you?

Josh: All four of us.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: And, um, I don’t know, I, I… You see people walk through really difficult things and I think, maybe, just subconsciously question like, “Could I do that?” Well, I’ve looked back on our story and questioned like, “Man, could I do something like that again”, and just feel like in that season, man, it was such a grace-covered season where God had given me what I needed for the day every day in terms of walking through it-

Jim: Let me ask you, I mean, again, for the person that… I mean, they may already be divorced, the affair happened. They’re looking back now, they’re listening, h- how did you find that grace? How did you want to find that grace?

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: I think I had always had a stubborn faith that, um, going back to our vows, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, sickness and health, like, there was a, a commitment that I made that I will finish this race with her, and that we felt called to have a large family. Uh, I think a lot of our love early on was based on kind of the youthful infatuation with one another.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: Sure.

Josh: And I knew there was a love like the Father’s in the sense that, you know, while I was a sinner, He died for me. He chose me. It wasn’t about Him just delighting in this kid. And there was a new place of love through pain that, that was largely a choice that wasn’t gonna be, you know, as shallow or as driven by attraction and infatuation. And so, ultimately, I would say it’s all God. You know, I, I was committed and surrendered to what I believed best, and I believed that me finishing this race with her was God’s best, and so, I was gonna walk through that.

Jim: Let me press you, because, again, this is the one place some theologians would argue, too, that abandonment also fits into this.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I’m not here to debate the theology of all that, but certainly, infidelity is the place that God says that’s your exit if you want to choose it…

Katie: Mm.

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … that you’re justified to do so. Why did you not choose that path? I mean, you kind of just said it, but…

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … both… I… Speak to the person who did choose that off-ramp.

Josh: Yeah. So, I’d say two things. One, you know, there’s very few things that scripture speaks to that God hates, and I hate divorce being one of those. So, so part of it for me was knowing like, okay, I know that, on my worst of days, He saw me and chose me. I can’t imagine a worst day in our story, and if my love is supposed to resemble the Father’s love for her, I’m gonna be all in on this and believe God doesn’t want us to have a mediocre, mundane story. Me choosing to stay isn’t gonna bring about a okay outcome. Like fullness, abundant of life is what He’s gonna author through the midst of this pain. But for the person who’s chosen another path, man, His grace is sufficient for you.

Jim: Yeah.

Josh: He’s kind and loving and gracious and forgiving. But ultimately, like there, there are consequences to all of our, all of our decisions.

Jim: Yeah.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: You’re a pastor, so you’re counseling couples, um, why do you think God said this breach of confidence, this breach of trust is one reason, the reason I would let you out of that covenant of marriage? Why… Even though He hates divorce…

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … why do you think He says this is one spot where you can make that decision? It’s intriguing to me-

Josh: It is, yeah.

Jim: … because God does hate divorce.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: And so, it’s kind of fascinating that this breach even outruns God’s command…

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … to stay together.

Josh: Yeah.

Katie: You know, the whole act of infidelity and betrayal is, is a soul tie that connects you to another person. And when He talks about this hardness of heart, it can be as if you’ve left the relationship. You know? And so, I just think God’s grace like giving allowance for that, that each person has to make their own choice. But I think about your response to compassion when you first heard my story.

Jim: Mm.

Katie: And you said, “You know, I just, in vulnerability, wanna say, Hey, Jesus still loves you.”

Jim: Absolutely.

Katie: He still loves sinners. And I think about that’s what Jesus did when the adulterer was thrown at His feet, is He recognized, you know, we all get lost sometimes. Like-

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Katie: And He stepped in with compassion in that moment, and instead, drew to her, you know, and pushed the accusers away. And so, I think, I think He makes allowances for all people ’cause we get our own choices, but that God’s heart, His character is compassion to draw towards those that are hurting…

Jim: Right.

Katie: … that are lost, you know?

Jim: And I, I even think though…

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … the whole metaphor of scripture being the bride and the bridegroom, that the Lord is saying, even though you’re a harlot…

Katie: Yes. Yes.

Jim: … to all of us…

Katie: Yes.

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … that you don’t love me the way you should love me, I mean, the whole thing is in this…

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … context of…

Katie: Yeah.

Jim: … trust and betrayal. And-

Josh: And I think I largely felt like I was praying God’s will, like He wants us to have a, a rich, full and satisfying marriage.

Jim: Mm.

Josh: And so, ultimately the work… I knew there was no switch in her that I could flip to make her wanna stay, to make her love me, but I think much of my decision, commitment, choice in that season was aligning with like, “God, I know you want this.”

Jim: Well, what else could you do? Really.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Yeah. “You brought us together, and so…”

Katie: Yeah, you are helpless.

Josh: “Yeah, do it.” And so-

Jim: Yeah.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: That’s amazing.

John: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And we’re talking today to Josh and Katie Walters. And, uh, their story is captured in their book, New Marriage, Same Couple: Don’t Let Your Worst Days Be Your Last Days. Uh, give us a call for a copy of that, or to connect with one of our counselors. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, and we’ve got details at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: Josh, let me, uh, come to you again, because you created an acronym. Maybe, both of you did this together, I don’t know.

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: But, uh, S.T.A.Y. Uh, give us the, the acronym definition, and then, we’ll come back and look at a couple of those elements.

Josh: Yeah. So, S is start with me, and that’s in a situation like ours, where it would seem very easy to point a finger at who is at fault. You know, just to acknowledge, especially in the context of marriage, there’s some percentage of this that’s my responsibility in terms of the culture that I had created in the home. T is take quitting off the table. That’s kind of the thought, especially as Katie shared earlier, that people can quit long before they leave, and if… it’s quit in their mind in terms of their commitment to their marriage or in their heart, uh, long before they leave. A is allow others to be a part of your story. And in ours, uh, from the outside, we appeared healthy, but no one really knew the stuff that was going on in our home, or in our hearts, and… Then, Y is yield to vision. And that’s about building a desired future together, having agreement, alignment between who are we becoming, where are we going.

Jim: That’s good. Maybe, with your permission, we’ll post that on the website.

Katie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Josh: Yeah. We can do that.

Jim: So people could just look at that, and certainly, we’re gonna offer you the book, which has all the things you need to know. But going back to S, let’s get into that a little bit, with S, uh, go a little deeper in that definition.

Josh: Start with me?

Jim: Yep.

Josh: Yep. So, in our story, uh, I knew that there was nothing… You know, you’ve heard if one person gets better, the relationship gets better, and I knew in our situation, there was nothing that I could do to change Katie’s mind, or heart. There was no measure of convincing. Uh, she thought that I just wanted to win. Uh, I didn’t wanna lose, uh, with, you know, with a, a best friend and him being the one that she was in a relationship with. So, she didn’t trust my motives. She didn’t necessarily, uh, know that she loved anymore, or really, liked me. And so, really all I could do was focus on me. And there was a, a confidence that, God, I know that this isn’t your will for us. You don’t wanna rip our family apart. You don’t want to see us go through a, a life without one another. You brought us together. And so, I just focused in on God of like, okay, if we’re gonna emerge from this together, and if we’re gonna emerge from this better, then, I’ve gotta let you start with me.

Jim: Yeah.

Josh: And so, what are the choices I made that led us to this place?

John: Mm-hmm.

Jim: It’s interesting, ’cause I think in… A, a counselor would suggest that that usually takes a little time for the victim, if I can use that terminology…

Josh: Yeah.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: … to get to that place that, I had a role in this? What are you talking about?

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: I didn’t have the affair. She had the affair.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: I could… And you gotta get through that. You gotta… So that’s a great…

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … path that you got there so quickly.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Well, I still had all of the anger and grief. I still went through the full gamut of emotions, but it was a, a matter of, what do I do today?

Jim: Right.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: And even as a pastor, man, I sought God more in that season than I ever had before. I was, uh, unemployed, church had quickly dismissed me, and we were kind of like void of community, or a church family. And so… Katie was still a school counselor, and I was home with the kids. And so, they had a, uh, a morning rest and an afternoon rest. That was really (laughing) Katie would say, like, “Kids don’t have two naps,” and I was like, “Well, while I’m the stay at home dad, they do.” (laughs)

Jim: Yeah.

Josh: I was like, I needed just the sanity of going after God for those two full hours to, to get me…

Jim: Yeah.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … through the day. And so, I think that’s where God really brought about that…

Jim: Yeah.

Josh: … that work.

Jim: Katie, how about you? Uh, the start with me concept, I mean, yeah. H- h- how did that work for you?

Katie: Yeah. Well, it does, it does seem easier when you’re the one that’s fully out there exposed. You know? But the reality is, you know, what… How we had gotten to that place was, I had these desires outside of the covenant God had given me. And what, what do you do when you have desires more than your marriage, outside of your marriage? And I think these principles of start with me, we still use today. I mean, they will help you rebuild in any season. And so, for me, what I had to start with me was to start questioning me, you know, start questioning the lies that I was believing. Start questioning, I’m thinking this is love with this other man. What I… My first realization was that it was self-love. And it took me a while to get there that this is called self-love. This is called selfishness. And that whenever there’s this desire gap between what God has given us and what we want, that is actually an invitation for us to go to Jesus.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Katie: That gap is our invitation. Whe- whether you find yourself in a betrayal situation, or just you’re wanting more, you know, I want more from my marriage, I, I wish we were more fun. I wish we had more adventures together. All of that gap is meant to, actually, you take that to the Lord and to each other, to build intimacy with you, Jesus and your spouse. So, starting with me really started questioning with me, is there any lies I’m believing, any ways that I’m discontent or dissatisfied and I’ve blamed that on Josh. I was a master what I call blame shifter. Where, if our life was not going up into the right…

Josh: (laughs).

Katie: … there was one man that was at fault for that. You know?

Jim: Yeah.

Katie: And I blamed him for all of that.

Jim: Ah.

Katie: And so, a lot of these principles in the book, you know, again, really, helped us rebuild when we were standing on rubble, but they have also helped us even today, to, “Hey, we just wanna, we want more. We wanna go to a new place”.

Jim: With T, take quitting off the table, I mean, a lot of people will say, you know, the D word is not in our vocabulary, however you wanna say that.

Josh: Yeah.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Jim: But for you, the Lord spoke directly to your heart. Something to do with, uh, I think you can have my feet.

Katie: Yeah, right. (Laughing).

Jim: So, let’s connect these dots.

Katie: Yeah. So, again, take quitting off the table for me. I think I am naturally a quitter. He is not. (Laughing) He is more faithful, you know? But I have a high quit factor. And if there’s anybody listening that’s like me, Jesus still loves you, but He will meet you to strengthen you towards faithfulness, towards endurance. And so, when I would spend time with Jesus, uh, He would give me these words of, “Hey, you are actually quitting. In your mind, you’re still going places. You’re still not believing that I can restore this marriage”.

Josh: Yeah.

Katie: I would think that, if I stayed with Josh, I would’ve done the good Christian thing and I would’ve ended with like a pal. But God would show me, “Hey, I am the author of all things, emotions. I can resurrect anything. You know? Don’t quit in your mind. Really, give me your feet”. And so, that was my language. I would say, “God, you can have my feet. My heart is not all the way back yet”, but I would say, “You can have my feet. I’m gonna commit myself to you, to your plans”.

Jim: Yeah.

Katie: Trust myself, you know?

Jim: Josh, in that vacillation, um, I mean, what kept you engaged? How did you navigate that pain and fear about losing her? I mean, it would’ve, maybe, been different if Katie came back that night and said, I’m all in. I’m so sorry.

Katie: Totally.

Jim: I love you a hundred percent. I made a mistake. Please, love me. Please, take me…

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: … back. Uh, but it wasn’t quite like that. She was vacillating.

Josh: Yeah.

Jim: Which, again, puts a lot of pressure on you to trust the Lord in the process.

Josh: Well, that’s-

Katie: Yeah.

Jim: ‘Cause you weren’t getting the affirmation.

Josh: Yeah. Well, that’s where the great news, if you can have my feet, it was like, man, that was the best news ever. ‘Cause, at least, we were using real words, and I knew…

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … just by way of her saying, “I don’t know that I love you anymore.” Uh, it was evident on her face, I could hear it in her voice. And so… But the fact that she was telling God, “You can have my feet,” just meant that we’re gonna be under the same roof every night. I was… Pray over her every night after she had fallen asleep. I could be the one to serve her when she got home from work. I’d have her cheese and crackers. (Laughing).

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: A little wine and snack plate. I could, uh…

Katie: Uh-huh.

Josh: … go on walks with her in the evening. It’s like all the little things that I had taken for granted earlier on in marriage, or had not done, it’s like, man, I was gonna do in this season, ’cause I’ve, I’ve felt how fragile the relationship was.

Jim: How did Luke 23 work into your calculus there?

Josh: Ultimately, it helped me separate Katie from the act that she had committed. Uh, God just helped me…

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … see very clearly like who she is not what she has done. And so-

Jim: And… Yeah. And that is, God forgive them for they know not what they do.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Exactly. And so, and on a day where… If I’m Jesus looking at these people that had mocked, beaten, and persecuted, I’m thinking they know exactly what they’ve done.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Yet, His prayer was, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they’ve done”. And so, I feel like a big part of that season, you know, you would never get mad at a spouse or a friend for getting up in the middle of the night and stubbing their toe and waking you up, like, gosh, what are you doing? I’m sleeping. Well, ultimately, Katie had made a decision in a dark place. And so, in this season, I could either remind her of her name means pure at heart. I could remind her who God created her to be. I could be a picture of Him to her.

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Or I could take my anger, grief, disappointment, frustration out on her and it just drive us further…

Katie: Mm-hmm.

Josh: … apart. So, ultimately, I, I took all that to God every day in hopes that He would be the one to work in our hearts at home, and rebuild something special.

John: We’ll, it’s such a powerful choice that Josh Walters made for his marriage, and we’re so thankful for how God restored Josh and Katie’s relationship. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller.

Jim: John, it’s no wonder this was one of our Best of programs in 2024, and I believe, uh, many couples will benefit from what Josh and Katie shared. If you or someone you know has experienced betrayal or a crisis that has put your marriage at risk, I want to urge you to get help right away. Focus on the Family is here for you. And we have many resources like our counseling team and our Hope Restored marriage intensives, where we offer Godly hope and the practical tools you need to repair your marriage. And many marriages have been rescued through Hope Restored, and our research shows that when we go back to those couples two years later, there is an 80% success rate of saving that marriage. And I’m so grateful for that.

John: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we have details about Hope Restored, of course. Also, Josh and Katie’s book, New Marriage, Same Couple: Don’t Let Your Worst Days Be Your Last Days, uh, we’ll send you a copy when you make a donation of any amount to the Ministry of Focus on the Family. Uh, hopefully, we can encourage you to make that a monthly pledge. If you’re not in a spot to do that, to make that kind of a commitment, a one-time gift is certainly appreciated. Call and donate today. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. You can also find details about Hope Restored and our counseling team in this great book, New Marriage, Same Couple at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.

Jim: And let me say this, if your marriage is in a good place and you have a heart to help other couples experience a healthy and God-honoring relationship, let me invite you to partner with us financially. Right now, we’re recruiting monthly sustainers, people who will commit to a monthly pledge to Focus, so that we’ll have the budget and manpower needed for the hundreds of thousands of couples who contact us each year for resources and help. Uh, you can do ministry through your giving here at Focus on the Family. And together, we can be a lifeline for hurting families.

John: Join our friends of Focus on the Family team when you call 800-A-FAMILY, or, uh, donate generously at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Well, thanks so much for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back for more of Josh and Katie’s powerful story as we, once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.