Wendy Speake: I love King Solomon’s request. He could have asked for anything and he said, “God, give me wisdom as I lead this great people of yours.” He’s talking about a nation. Well, nation originally means family. So we’ve got a little nation in our home. What better question to say, “God, give me wisdom as I lead this great people of yours.”
John Fuller: Welcome to today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. We’re joined by Wendy Speake and Amber Lia. They’re gonna offer practical parenting advice for you for every stage of your journey as a mom or a dad. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: You know, John, here’s a neon sign. There are no perfect parents. (laughs)
John: Indeed. (laughs)
Jim: And I think, you know, this would be one of those times I sit and listen to outstanding professionals talk about marriage and parenting. (laughs) And I’ll go home and talk to Jean and she goes, “Are you listening to your guests?” (laughing).
John: Hmm.
Jim: It’s a sweet way to say, “Yeah. You might have some more room to grow.”
John: Exactly.
Jim: But in that parenting space, it’s so important to you, you only have one roll at this. You know how many of us that have older kids now say, “I wish I could have a do-over.” And man, today we’re gonna talk about not needing that do-over because we will help you, our guests today, to provide scripts. They’ve written a great book, 30 scripts are included on how to communicate to your kids when they’re disobeying, when they’re not compliant, when something comes up. The teenagers, those years are in there as well.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So I’m looking forward to that discussion because it would’ve been really helpful for me to have this book when I was raising Trent and Troy.
John: Yeah. I find it very, very beneficial to hear somebody who kind of frames out, what should I be saying when, (laughs) and that’s really the heart of the story here today. Uh, the book, as you said, Jim, is Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New. And, uh, you can find out more about the book and Wendy Speake and Amber Lia at our website, and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Wendy and Amber, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
Amber Lia: Hey, Jim. Thanks for having us.
Wendy: Yeah. We always love being here, so it means so much.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: It’s so good to have you guys here and we always just talk and talk and it’s great. Some of that gets captured for the program. (laughing)
Amber: Yes.
Jim: But it is so good. And what a topic. Uh, you know, these scripts, and we’ve touched on this in previous programs, but, uh, uh, I really meant what I said there. You know, this is a helpful tool or resource for parents to really better respond. I can remember, you know, one of the times disciplining Trent and he’s just a thoughtful thinker, you know?
Amber: Hmm.
Jim: And he was probably six or seven and I was tucking him into bed after the discipline and, and I said, “You know what, Trent? I’m sorry that I overreacted and I just want to say I’m sorry.” And then he smiled. This big smile. He’s in the bunk bed, he’s in the top bed ’cause he is the firstborn. And he’s looking at me eye to eye and he had this big smile. I said, “What? Why are you smiling?” He said, “I didn’t know parents had to apologize.” (laughing) And isn’t that cute?
Amber: That’s really sweet. (laughs)
Wendy: It’s really so sweet. (laughs)
Jim: It’s so sweet. But, you know, (laughs) it’s just that point where we don’t get it right all the time.
Wendy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jim: So I, I think in that regard, the challenges of parenting can be tough. I enjoyed it even with the challenges. And I, man, young couples who are thinking, “Do we get a dog or do we have a baby?” Have a baby. (laughing) Because it’s so much better. And man, I’m telling you, at the end of your life, you will be fully rewarded in that relationship with your children. And we laugh about it, but seriously.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Don’t let fear grip you. And I don’t think there’s a challenge you can go through that you’re not gonna be a better person as a parent-
John: Hmm.
Jim: … and have that child be a better young adult. But speak to the challenges. We’ll start there.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Oh my goodness. Parenting is tough.
Wendy: You know, I, I know that you brought us in to have a conversation with you, but during your little opening there, I found myself just getting drawn in thinking, which, yeah, just remind us that’s true. Just remind us.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And that’s, that’s Amber in my heart is we think of, specifically our two parenting books, aa, which we’ve been here-
Jim: Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy: … with you before and spoken about it. And this really is the follow-up book to that.
Jim: And we’ll attach that broadcast at the website-
John: Sure. We look over-
Jim: … so people can see both, but or, or hear both.
Wendy: Yes. But that really we like to think of them as conversations. We are not the experts. We are in the trenches and have been in the trenches-
Jim: You’re the moms. (laughing)
Amber: Yes.
Wendy: … with you guys saying, “Hey, here are the struggles.”
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Hey, to the mom that’s crying, to the mom that’s already feeling convicted, to the mom that already wants to throw in the towel. Yeah. We’ve been there. So what’s the specific struggle? We are gonna sit with you and we’re just gonna-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … we’re gonna have a conversation with you about, well, what does God’s Word say? What could a better response be? What were the lousy responses like? And so that’s really what this book is, is an invitation to slow down, sit down and write down a better response before you need it.
Jim: But you, you’re raising the exact point of the parenting challenge because we don’t think about it ahead of time.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we tend to do to our children, what we live through as kids.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: So that’s why we always say that, you know, the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree ’cause we’re parenting like we were parented-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Right.
Jim: … and we haven’t stopped to think through, “Okay. Is this effective?”
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: I can’t remember who said it. I mean, it’s that great axiom that, you know, if you’re repeating the same thing over and over-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … trying to get a different result-
Wendy: It’s crazy.
Jim: … it’s crazy.
Wendy: Yeah. Right.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: And so we’re saying, “Let’s figure out where are we making that mistake over and over? Let’s pinpoint that. Let’s take it one at a time and say, ‘What would a kinder and more effective and more God-honoring response be when my children dot-dot-dot?'”
Jim: Yeah. Amber, let me have you-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … on the parenting script, this idea. So role play something for us where the script is applied, you know, uh, it could be misbehavior or something like that.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: And I say, “Stop that. Stop that.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You’re gonna go to your room if you don’t stop that.”
Amber: Right. (laughs)
Jim: Okay. Give it three seconds. “You haven’t stopped that.
John: Yeah. (laughs)
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: All right. Now you’re going to your room.”
Amber: Right.
Jim: And-
Amber: And then you feel terrible as a parent-
Jim: Well, it doesn’t work.
Amber: … because you’re losing your cool. Yeah.
Jim: Say behavior comes out. So take that typical emotional response that we as parents get into.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: I can’t believe we’re the adults. I mean, I’m embarrassed to say so many times I got down there in the pigpen with the boys trying to convince them-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … and I’m sounding just like them.
John: Hmm.
Amber: Yes. It’s like we have resorted to their level instead of calling them to a more mature standard that we could model. Right? And I feel like we do that, we lower ourselves to this suddenly juvenile response, just like we’re mimicking them instead of, um, calling them to actually listen to us and to obey. And, you know, Jim, it’s, it’s really important because when you get into the heat of the moment, that is the knee-jerk response. Right? Just keep, you know, blubbering over your words saying the same things that don’t work.
Jim: I told you to do this.
Amber: Yeah. Or asking really dumb questions, let’s be honest.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: Like, “Why do you keep doing that, or why don’t you listen to me?” And there’s no, like, do we really expect-
Jim: An answer. (laughs)
Amber: … that the child is gonna come up with a really intelligent response- (laughs)
Jim: That’s pretty funny. (laughs)
Amber: … in that moment?
Jim: “No, Father, my cortex-
Amber: Yeah. Right?
Jim: … is not responding-
Amber: Yeah. Right. (laughing)
Jim: … exactly the way it should.”
Amber: Yeah. But that’s what we do. Like, we just like, “Why are you doing this?” And so we really wanted to help parents, first of all, you know, understand that you’re not the only one that’s struggling and doesn’t always know what to say or says the wrong thing.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: So you’re not alone. Don’t let, you know, the enemy heap a ton of shame and guilt on you. But Wendy and I say, “You’ve gotta figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean.”
Jim: Man, that’s so right.
Amber: Making the plan. Right?
Jim: Let me, let me push you for the example, the disobedient child.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: What’s a script here just to give the listeners and the viewers-
Amber: Absolutely.
Jim: … a chance to absolutely hear it?
Amber: And I will also say that with this script, the things that we do encourage parents to say, they’re really rooted in biblical principles and even in scripture, because that’s where true transformation happens. Right?
Jim: Right. That’s so good. Yeah.
Amber: Like there’s no better script than, (laughs) you know, I think Wen- it’s Wendy that says, “Choose the word when you choose your words.”
John: Mm-hmm.
Amber: Right? So that’s really, really important. And so like when, when I have a child that’s disobeying, I will say to them, “Um, okay, what happens when you disobey?” So instead of immediately going in for a lesson or you know, punishing them. I will just say, “Hey, what happens when you disobey, Ali?” And he’ll say to me, he’s learned to say, “Well, things don’t go well.” And I go, “That’s right. So I wonder what will happen if you proceed to, you know, hit your brother or jump off that high wall or take the car out without asking permission, you know, checking to make sure I need it first?” Like, I wonder what will happen because Ephesians tells us, um, in 6:2-3, it says, “Children, you’ll honor your mother and your father dot-dot-dot that it may go well with you-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Amber: … that you may live a long life.” Like both in the Old and New Testament, there’s so many verses about children obeying their parents.
Wendy: So that it goes well with you.
Amber: And it, It’s often so that it will go well with them or so that they will have a long life. And so I’ve instilled in the boys, not perfectly. Okay? (laughs).
John: Mm-hmm. (laughs)
Jim: Disclaimer.
Amber: Um, but remember when I ask you what happens when you disobey? I want them to reflect instead of just reject what I’m saying because I’m angry. You know?
Jim: Right. It-
Amber: So yeah. It just gives them that opportunity.
Jim: Yeah. Force against force.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: We kind of, even as, uh, little children, they, they don’t like being told things, you know?
Amber: Right.
Jim: It’s right in our little human nature called sin. (laughs)
Amber: Yes.
Jim: Right? It’ so interesting.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Wendy, let me ask you this, this natural consequences of our actions. Um, Amber’s alluding to it, but let me ask you more specifically. Can that actually be helpful? I think this is an area in my parenting, Jean, was better at than I was.
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: Mm-hmm. (laughs)
Jim: I was more the saving parent.
Amber: Mm-hmm. (laughs)
Jim: You know, oh, let’s not let them experience too much turmoil or pain.
Wendy: Yeah. Going with the rescue.
Jim: You know, I never said it that way, but I certainly did it.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: And Jean get, you know, I’d get the look like, “Seriously?”
Wendy: Well, I think natural consequences are the most helpful because that’s, they’re only with us in our home for X number of years. So there, there are just so many reasons why natural consequences I think are the best consequences. Now if your toddler’s running into the street-
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: … (laughs) that’s not the time for it. Right?
Jim: Right.
Wendy: So as they get older, I think there’s more and more and more room for natural consequences. What I love most as a parent is the hard parenting gets to be done by their consequences and not by my ineffective lectures.
Jim: Right.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: They don’t need to hear-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … from me again why they shouldn’t do that thing they always do. And I’m talking little kids getting out of bed time after time, or big kids sneaking out of the house.
Jim: Out the bedroom window. (laughs)
Wendy: Like whatever these things are, what, as they get older and natural consequences come in, or they didn’t do their studies, they didn’t turn in their assignment, they didn’t keep up on turning in the essay and all of a sudden it’s, “Mom, you need to pull me from this class.” Oh, there are going to be some natural consequences. And one thing that Amber’s really good is showing compassion and empathy.
Amber: Empathy. Yeah.
Wendy: Oh, man, I am so sorry you’re having to deal with this stress right now.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: How did you get to this point with not turning in this assignment? Can you walk me through that? Are there ways I can help you to get caught up?
John: Hmm.
Wendy: But no, I’m not gonna come in for the rescue because you knew that it was due so I’m not going to pull you last minute from a class and then go through the work of signing you up for a summer school class and then for six weeks you’re gonna be upset at me that I signed you up. Like-
Jim: Right.
Wendy: This is just, this is wrestling the pig. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: And you’re gonna get dirty.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: And so natural consequences gets to do the hard parenting, especially as they continue to grow up.
Jim: That’s really good.
John: Yeah. Yeah. And Amber, you had that story about a donut shop, I think-
Amber: Yes.
John: … that relates to this.
Amber: This is such a good one because it, to your point, John, it does cost us something. Like, it’s not just hard for the kids to obey, it’s hard for the parent to follow through consistently.
John: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: I think a lot of us struggle with that. Like, how do I actually… Like, am I really gonna follow through on that consequence ’cause that hurts my heart as a mom to see your child suffer. There’s that empathy piece. So one time, um, my son had a friend who needed to go to school with us. It was kind of a rare occasion. He was super excited that his buddy was gonna come along with us. And so I said, “You know what? Let’s leave a little bit early and we’ll go by the donut shop on the way.” And so we’re getting the car ready, everything’s going smoothly for the morning. And then my son starts to just melt down. There’s this very mouthy response from him that just floored me. It just kind of came out of nowhere. It was kind of unusual, but I was like, “This is absolutely not okay the way this is happening.” And so I let him know. I said, “You know what, son, in our house, um, we use words to bless people. And the way that you’re reacting to this situation right now, unfortunately (laughs) is unacceptable and I cannot put you in the car with your friend and reward you and do something special right on the heels of this, you know, total eruption. And so I’m going to go ahead and take your friend and your brother and we’re gonna go to the donut shop and I’m gonna go on to school and then I will, um, have daddy, you know, take you or I’ll come back and get you. You may not go with us.” And he looked at me just like horrified that I was literally going to lay down the line. Right? And not take him with me. But I did. And so we got our things together, I explained to the friend, you know, he’ll be coming along later and let’s go get in the car. And off we went. And as I’m turn around, I just say to my son, “I love you.” And that’s sometimes the most important script to say-
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: … in the heat of those moments.
John: Hmm.
Amber: Because even when we are giving them that discipline or that loving correction, we’re following through on the consequence. Like, we cannot have this really disruptive situation very disobedient, and then immediately give you a reward.
John: Hmm.
Amber: There will be a consequence for that. You will miss out on this opportunity. I love you too much to let you go down a wrong path.
John: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: I would love to jump in-
Amber: And so I love you-
Wendy: … and say this did not come out of Amber’s mouth naturally.
Amber: No. (laughing)
Wendy: Nor, nor did you-
Amber: Can’t really take credit for it.
Wendy: … and I, I would say supernaturally, yes, with the power of the Holy Spirit helping her. But what I mean by that is she prepared when my child does wrong, I’m not going to follow on the heels of it with an immediate blessing. When something like this, you don’t know the specifics, but it happens enough to know that it happens, when it happens, I’m prepared now-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … to say, “Hey, that blessing we’re about to all do, we can’t do that.”
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And there’s a time for grace actually.
Wendy: Absolutely.
Amber: There have been times when my child’s disobeyed and I actually do take them to get the donut. And I, in that moment, I say to them, “This is one of those occasions when I want you to know that this is unconditional love. Grace is something you don’t deserve.”
Jim: You deserve this but we’re gonna do that.
Amber: So you’re deserving this-
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: … but you get this.
Jim: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
Amber: But it’s always I love you-
Jim: No. That’s really good.
Amber: … even when you’re naughty, I love you. (laughs)
Jim: You know, when you’re saying that, what’s so interesting to me, it’s like when we sit with marriage counselors. They always say it right. You know, and the-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … marriage counselor says, “You know, Jim, what you should say in that moment is, Jean, I hear you. (laughing) I really understand your heart right now. And I, I can only apologize-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … for the insensitive words that I’ve said.”
Amber: Aw.
Jim: But that’s not what you’re thinking in the middle of the battle.
Amber: No.
Jim: You know what I mean?
Amber: No. It’s not.
Jim: And so it is preparing what you said. I just wanna punch that.
Wendy: And I love that-
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: … because that counselor that gave you (laughs) that really good-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … true wisdom-
Jim: It was totally contentious.
Wendy: … has heard all the bad, (laughs) uh, all the bad stories. Right? Has probably lived their own bad stories and they sat down and they wrote down, they prepared. What’s a better response?
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: And sometimes we need to not parent in the problem.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: If we’re not ready for a better response, we need to say, “Hey, kiddo. Can you just go hang out in your room for a little bit? I’m gonna go hang out in mine. I wanna circle back with you ’cause we need to talk, but I’m not ready with the right response.”
Amber: Yeah.
John: It’s good. Yeah.
Wendy: Slow down.
Amber: Mm-hmm. (laughs)
John: Some great wisdom today from Amber Lia and Wendy Speake as we’re talking about their book Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New. And, uh, you can learn more about, uh, some of these scripts and get a, a lot more from the book when you get it from us here at the ministry. Uh, the link is at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Let’s look at the comparison culture-
John: Hmm.
Jim: … that is created. Now social media, you know, that’s a whole nother discussion about what age do we give our kids their phone?
Amber: Hmm.
Jim: And we’re not here to talk about that. We’ve got many programs that you can look up, get the app-
Amber: Yes. Yeah.
Jim: … and you can look those up. A whole program devoted just to that theme.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But in that environment, our kids can really get into that comparison thing and then begin to want this or ask you about this, et cetera.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: How, how do you manage that and how can parents instill a heart of contentment-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … especially with social media today?
Wendy: My dad (laughs) had a saying that I hated, (laughs) but now that I’ve written a book with Amber called Parenting Scripts, what I realize is it was his shortest pithiest-
Amber: Hmm.
Wendy: … script with me. And it was, “Tough beans.” (laughing)
Jim: Tough beans? (laughing)
Wendy: Yeah. It, but he would usually, and we put in our book, here’s a long script.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Like this is pretty much the lecture version-
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: … that they’re gonna-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … zone out for. So at some point you might wanna have this conversation-
Jim: Tough beans. (laughs)
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … with your kids. And then here’s the shorter version. But when it comes to, “All my friends are on social media and I, you know, I ca- I don’t have it, or “All my friends have Snapchat and you won’t let me have it, and all my friends have this and you won’t let me have it.” We’ve already done the long lecture. We’ve already done the explaining. We’ve already done the loving. We’ve already done the message. At some point it’s got to be, “Hey, buddy, God, in His wisdom (laughs) thought it was a good idea to give me you as your mom-
Jim: (laughing) And you may not like that right now.
Wendy: … and this is the choice I made, whether you like it or not-
John: That’s true.
Wendy: … or agree or not.” And that’s really my script.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: And I’ve used it. I used it this week with my youngest son. I said, “Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not, this is the consequence your dad and I decided.”
John: Yeah. Yeah. This is-
Wendy: And so that can be the answer for social media and tough beans was my dad’s way of saying it. This is my way of saying it, “Whether you like it or not-
Jim: I thought you were gonna-
Wendy: … whether you agree or not-
Jim: I thought you were gonna say because I told you so. (laughing) It’s probably not a good one. (laughs) Yeah.
Wendy: (laughs) Tough beans, buddy.
John: Yeah.
Jim: Tough beans is a better way of saying that.
Wendy: Yeah. (laughs) And it never felt mean-
Jim: Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy: … from my dad because we already had the longer-
Jim: Relationship.
Wendy: … explanation-
John: Yeah.
Wendy: … and relationship.
Jim: And relationship.
John: That’s true.
Wendy: We have a history relationship. Yes.
John: Okay. So we need a script for the parent who’s thinking, that’s great. Um, my child just sits around all day-
Jim: A teenager.
Wendy: Yeah.
John: … and I’ve noticed, uh, certainly there’s a do I have to kind of mentality-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
John: … like it’ll take you all of 30 seconds-
Wendy: Yeah.
John: … is there a reason you can’t? But that doesn’t work.
Wendy: Yeah.
John: So gimme a script-
Amber: Well-
John: … for motivating a child.
Amber: … one thing I tell my boys too is-
Wendy: Oh, yeah.
Amber: … um, you don’t have to do this, you get to do this.
John: Mm-hmm.
Amber: And I apply that to myself all the time because there are certain things as parents we have to do that we may not really want to do. And if we are in that place mentally and emotionally and even spiritually, like what are you talking about, Amber? Like you get to do the hard parenting. This is actually a gift.
John: Hmm.
Amber: Like what does the Bible tell me? Like, it says that children are a gift. Right? They’re a reward.
John: That’s good.
Amber: And so to lovingly remind my child, you know, no, you don’t have to mow the lawn, but you get to, and what do you think that’s gonna do for your dad?
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: So it’s asking better questions-
John: Hmm.
Amber: … um, allowing them again, to reflect.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: Instead of getting mad at them and saying, “You know what? I do so much for you. (laughs) How-
Wendy: The natural response.
Amber: … why are you being lazy and not getting up and doing the lawn and dah-dah-dah like-
Jim: I put the food on the table.
Amber: … after all I do for you. Yeah. After all I do for you.
Wendy: After all I’ve done.
Amber: And instead, it’s just going, “Hmm. I wonder how it will make your dad feel-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: … to know that you followed through on that and I wonder how you’ll feel afterwards-
Jim: Well, that’s good. That’s really good.
Amber: … that you get to do that?”
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And to, again, causing them to reflect, because otherwise they’re gonna be distracted. They just have a reason to get mad at me.
John: Yeah.
Amber: Instead of thinking about what’s the result?
Jim: So you both have boys.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: And you know, again, there’s a girl version of this-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and maybe we can get there before the end of today.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: But with the boys, the thing that I recognize, you know, especially when they’re younger, they’re best friends now, which is so much fun to watch.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: But when they’re younger, they could go at it. I remember-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … Troy punching Trent and he had a loose tooth-
Amber: Oh.
Jim: … and he pulled his fist back and his tooth was embedded-
Wendy: (laughs)
Amber: Oh no.
Jim: … in his knuckles.
John: Oh my-
Jim: I mean, they were like eight and 10.
John: (laughs)
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: Wow.
Jim: So, I mean, Troy showed me, I went, “Dude…”
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … ’cause Troy’s a much smaller guy than Trent. (laughs) And I was like, “Way to go.” (laughing) Maybe not the right, uh, maybe not the right parenting.
Amber: Jean’s over there. It’s okay Jean. (laughing)
Jim: Yeah. Jean’s like, what, she’s doing the cutout, you know?
Amber: Yes.
Jim: But, um, I mean that, that reasonable brotherly brawl did happen over Legos or whatever it was.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: What script when you have that kind of physical confrontation going on?
Wendy: Yeah. Good question. You know, so many of the confrontations, I would say we all have a story or two of it exploding bigger.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: Like the tooth embedded in the knuckle.
Amber: Mm-hmm. (laughs).
Wendy: Okay. I don’t know if we all have a tooth embedded in the knuckle story, but we all have a, okay, that one was like the biggest brawl, but I would say we all have the I woke up and already they were going at it down the hall.
Jim: Right. (laughs).
Wendy: Like you’re still wiping the sleep from your own eyes and they’ve been at it for a while.
Jim: They got the last bowl of Cap’n Crunch.
Wendy: How do I even-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … like I didn’t even have time in the word yet to get my heart happy in the Lord before having to deal with this fight. So, um, I think it’s in the, one of the opening chapters of Triggers. Amber introduces this idea of mom as coach. And I run with that idea in this example-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … in our Parenting Scripts book, which is if you can join them at the fight without joining them in the fight-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … you can be a coach on the outside of the boxing ring.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: So if you know at least the, the form of a boxing ring, the coach is not in there with them.
Jim: Right. They’re outside the ring.
Wendy: The coach is not the ref.
Jim: Right.
Wendy: The coach is on the outside in the corner. And that number one, don’t we want our kids to know we’re in their corner?
Jim: Sure.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Two, what’s our job? Is to call them to their corner and say, “Ding-ding-ding, everybody to your corner here.”
Amber: Mm-hmm. (laughs)
Wendy: And then what do they do? Do they just lay into the fact they are fighting? No. Fighters gonna fight sometimes, but mothers and fathers, it’s not our job to fight our kids. Fight for our kids, coach them in how to fight well, and I don’t mean how to give a good left hook. I mean, how to fight-
Jim: Emotionally.
Wendy: … emotionally-
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: … well. So how to struggle well rather than struggle wrong. And so we wanna lean over the ropes metaphorically.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And sometimes that means you guys are struggling and I don’t wanna try to figure it out with you while you’re all amped up.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: So ding-ding-ding, everyone to your corners might mean, let’s take a break in our rooms. You don’t even have to think of this as a timeout. I mean, yeah, timeout-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … but play Legos, read a book, play your guitar-
Jim: But do it separately.
Wendy: … but bring down your, you know, heightened state and then let’s have a conversation about how you’re gonna deal with this problem better. I’ll coach you through it, or maybe you just needed me to coach you into your corners and you guys have what it takes to figure this out.
Amber: And that’s good for girls too, because like, so I taught, um, middle school and high school for 10 years.
Jim: Uh-huh.
Amber: And so dealt with a lot of boys and a lot of girls and there’s… With the girls, there’s a lot of drama of words, right?
Jim: Right.
Amber: Like it’s a lot of emotion, it’s a lot of words. There’s a lot of heightened things going on. If I can be a little stereotypical, um, I will say that, I live in a testosterone home.
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: It’s a little different vibe. (laughs)
Wendy: I think it’s okay to be generalizing-
Amber: But with the girls-
Wendy: … a little bit because-
Amber: But-
Wendy: … we just generalized with-
Amber: Yes.
Wendy: … a tooth-
Amber: Right.
Wendy: … and a knuckle.
Amber: Exactly.
Wendy: Okay.
Amber: But with the girls, you know, there’s all these words and all these emotions. And so what I remind myself, and I wanna remind, you know, our listeners too, is that ultimately the war is not with your person. The battle is not flesh. You know, your daughter’s standing in front of you and you feel like the battle is between you and her and it is not. The battle is in the spiritual realm. And that is where we actually take up the fight. You know, to Wendy’s point, yes, we need to cool down. I love that, “Ding-ding-ding. You know, go to your corners for a minute. We gotta just like have some space here so that we can all, you know, think for a minute.” But then there’s also just that reminder that the battle is really the Lord’s and the battle ultimately is in that spiritual realm. I don’t wanna fight with my child. I wanna fight for them through prayer, through using these scripts that are rooted in Scripture, through being calm myself and, you know, modeling what I mean to say instead of saying the mean thing or the ineffective thing that’s not working.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: Right.
Jim: That’s so good.
Amber: Thank you.
Jim: We’re right at the end and we’ve scratched the surface. We’re gonna come back next time, continue the discussion and, uh, you know, I hope this is helping you. Uh, again, like I said at the beginning, I wished I would’ve had this kind of resource to get me through some of my (laughs) parenting dilemmas. I think Jean would say the same thing. So let me just pause and say Focus on the Family is a Christian ministry that is here to help you and your family. And we depend on your generous financial gifts to equip parents with biblical resources because we know, strong marriages and families are the bedrock of a healthy and flourishing society. That’s the way God designed it. But we can’t do it without you. Uh, the last time we spoke with Amber and Wendy, we received a letter from a mom who routinely berated her daughter for never listening. She said, “I felt like the worst parent on earth. And I’m so glad I got to hear your broadcast. I know I’m not the only parent that’s struggling. I made a donation of $2 because that is all I could give for now. I’d like to make some changes and I believe the book will be a blessing.” Hopefully this mom can implement some of those parenting scripts that we’ve talked about.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So if Focus has blessed you, or you’d like to see our work continue to bless future generations, please consider making a generous gift of any amount and consider making that gift on a monthly basis. If you do, we’d love to send a copy of Amber and Wendy’s great book, Parenting Scripts, as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry and helping others. It’s a great way to partner together.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And let me remind you, we have something called Age and Stage E-Newsletter. So you go in, you can sign up for that content and we will, uh, ask for your kid’s birthdays and we’ll send you an initial overview for the year of what you’re gonna experience in the twos or the eights or the thirteens, and then every week we’ll send you something to help you in that parenting journey. And it’s a great thing, and I’m sure we’re incorporating some of Wendy and Amber’s great content into that. But sign up for it. It’s absolutely free. We’re just here to help you do that parenting job better. No greater resource than Parenting Scripts by our wonderful guests. And, uh, just get on with doing the parenting job-
John: Hmm.
Jim: … as best as you can.
John: Yeah. We’re here to help. And, uh, you can find all the details about the Age and Stage E-Newsletter in this terrific book, Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New, uh, and so much more at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 1-800 the letter A and the word FAMILY.
Jim: Amber and Wendy, uh, let’s come back next time and keep the conversation going. Okay?
Amber: Yeah. We’d love to.
Jim: Okay.
John: Hmm. And thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation next time. And once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Day Two:
Wendy Speake: This is a conversation about the kindness of God. This is a safe place to talk about, “Hey, God, am I off? Is there anything offensive in me? And if so, what’s the purpose of it? Oh, in your kindness? To lead me to repentance so I can walk in the right way, the everlasting way? I’m all in.”
John Fuller: Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. We’re back again today with Amber Lia and Wendy Speake, uh, who are gonna offer you some practical biblical responses for common parenting challenges. Thanks for joining us. I’m John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, last time we talked about the sibling rivalry, uh, you know, some really good stuff. Disobedient children, how to motivate them with a different script.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And, uh, we covered much more. So if you missed last time, uh, go to the website, get the download, uh, download the app for your phone. You get- have access to all the programs that way. It’s a great way to listen. Um, we’re gonna continue that discussion today and talk about this idea of our guests’ parenting scripts so you’re not doing the same thing every time and getting the same kind of subpar result-
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … or a poor result. So why don’t we as adults and parents do something differently? And that’s really the whole thing.
John: Yeah. I really enjoyed, uh, our conversation last time with Amber Lia and Wendy Speake. Uh, they’re busy moms. They’ve got seven children between the two of them and they’ve written a great book, um, called Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New. It all is, uh, about that reset that, uh, Jim, you we’re talking about. Get a copy of this book and other helpful parenting resources when you’re at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Wendy and Amber, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
Amber Lia: Thank you for having us. We’re glad to be here.
Jim: Good to have you. Yeah.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Um, okay, let’s reiterate right here because sometimes, you know, marriage and parenting content, we can not mention the commitment that we all have to Christ. It’s all kind of rooted in scriptural truth. That’s what we’re trying to project. So it’s not just a TV show, uh, you know, projecting secular ideas.
Amber: Right.
Jim: What we’re trying to do as a marriage and parenting ministry and what you guys are doing, creating content in that marriage and parenting space, is say, “Hey, being rooted in Christ is the first thing-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … that you need to do.” So even your scripts, as you talked about ’em last time, are rooted in the Word. So just give us that recap about, um, the methodology that you’re applying here.
Wendy: Well, and the- the phrase that Amber used and we used in the- in the first episode, and that we keep in the book, is our scripts need to be shaped by the scriptures. Our words need to be shaped by the Word. You don’t need to be quoting scripture at your kids all the time. Now, there’s a time and a place for training them up and teaching them and discipling them, but we want our words to be shaped. And then we want-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … to invite our kids up into maturity shaped by the scriptures with us.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: And so the book that came before Parenting Scripts is called Triggers. And one of our favorite quotes from that book is, uh, figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean. So this book is actually just a safe place to have a safe conversation. We’re gonna say, “Hey, these are some of the areas, the common areas where we say the wrong thing.” And we know that because it’s not getting a better result.
Jim: Hm.
Wendy: And we’re just gonna take them one by one. In this scenario, what are some of the lousy things we say, some of the inconsistent things we say? Let’s come up with a different plan. Hopefully it’s gonna be a better plan. Hopefully it’s gonna be rooted in scripture, it’s gonna be effective-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … it’s gonna be Christ-like. We’re gonna change, we’re gonna invite them to change with us.
Amber: And this will be encouraging to the listener who’s like, “I feel like such a bad parent because I feel like I always say the wrong thing. I always say the ineffective thing. And how do I just- where does that come from? How do I learn to say something better?” And we don’t trust ourselves and we shouldn’t because we don’t have wisdom, but God does. And I find a lot of comfort in knowing that. Listen, if God gave us the Holy Spirit as our helper, then why am I questioning that in those moments He’s not going to show up and help me?
Jim: Hm.
Amber: He will and He does. And so to be rooted in scripture, to hide it in our hearts because out of the mouth, right, is what comes from our heart. And so really meditating on specific verses that deal with certain struggles that I’m facing with my kids when I repeatedly say the wrong thing. I start there. I take that time. I’ll even take one verse and just focus on it for a month or two months. You know, if it’s about something about my tongue, you know, if I constantly feel like everybody in the house is, like, in a sense cursing one another, right? Like-
Wendy: Yeah.
Amber: … there’s just all these mean words, like back and forth between brothers. We’re all starting to get into that kind of spirit. Like, that’s the tone in our home.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Amber: I have to lean in spiritually and fill up because I can’t speak spiritually, you know, truthful things if I’m empty myself.
Jim: Your bucket’s empty. Yeah.
Amber: My bucket’s empty.
Jim: You know-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … this is really, this isn’t where I was gonna go, but I think it’s a great place to say this. And it’s a bit of a gut check for every parent.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: If you are not in the Word, if you’re not practicing the things of truth, you’re gonna do a poor job-
Amber: Yes.
Jim: … parenting.
Wendy: Right.
Jim: And so the first thing you have to do is come to grips with your spiritual maturity.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: You know, how is your anger?
Amber: That’s true.
Jim: If you have an issue with anger, deal with it.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: With the Lord. “Lord, help me to-
Amber: And He will. (laughs)
Jim: … get control of this anger.” That is so much the first step a parent-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … has to go to.
Wendy: Well, and I- I think that it’s really good to, before we shut down feeling guilty and shameful about ourselves, to remember that it’s the kindness of the Lord. If you’re having a prick-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … of conviction right now, it’s the kindness of the Lord to lead you to turn away from the wrong words.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Turn to His Word so that He can shape your words to be right words.
Amber: Absolutely.
Jim: Romans 2:4.
Amber: That’s it.
Wendy: Exactly.
Jim: That’s the kindness of God that-
Wendy: Our own word- This is the Focus on the Family-
Jim: … leads you to repentance.
Wendy: … paraphrase.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: (laughs)
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: No, I love that. I always say when I’m speaking to a group, I’ll say, “Now, who has the testimony where Christians treated you so poorly, they hated you so effectively, that you decided to become one of them?” (laughs)
Amber: That’s so right.
Jim: I’ve never seen a hand go up. You know, it’s always how they treated-
Amber: Let’s talk about that in the shape of the faith and the scope-
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: … of the family.
Wendy: But- But we can do that to our children because-
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: … we’re the mom.
Jim: How about- Yes, right?
Amber: Right? So, hm, maybe not. Maybe we should be very, very loving with them.
Jim: But think of that, what you’re saying right there is the whole purpose for what we all do. The idea here is to raise your kids in the admonition-
Wendy: Hm, yes.
Jim: … of the Lord. And the best way they’re gonna learn it is by seeing Jesus in you.
Wendy: In you. That’s it. Yeah.
Jim: Not- Not the other stuff.
Wendy: Yeah, that’s right.
Jim: So all of that. So that’s the umbrella. Wendy-
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: … let me ask you-
Wendy: Yes, moms. Yes, dads.
Jim: Yes. (laughs)
Wendy: Yes, grandmas. Yes, grandpas.
Amber: Grandpas. (laughs)
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You- You mentioned, again, these are all great examples. The book is chock full of these, these 30 scripts that you hit. But particularly, uh, you talk about the time one of your sons was saying hateful things to his brother.
Wendy: Oh, my word. (laughs)
Jim: Um, what did-
Wendy: That sounds terrible.
Jim: No, no, no. You know, again, every- (laughs) every parent has-
Wendy: (laughs)
Jim: … this experience. What are you saying?
Amber: There’s a reason-
Jim: Um-
Amber: … we wrote this book.
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: We have lots of (laughs) examples.
Jim: So what did the Holy Spirit reveal to you in that moment?
Wendy: Yeah. Well, and I love it. Whether we’re doing well or we’re doing poorly, if we’re looking to the Lord, He has a lesson for us-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … about us. Like, search me, oh, God.
Jim: Correct. Yeah.
Wendy: Know my heart. Show me my not only anxious thoughts, but offensive ways. Deal with me-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … and then from there I get to not only model it, I get to invite my children up into the transforming power and grace and kindness of God. So my youngest child, my youngest child, for goodness sakes-
Jim: The most precious.
Wendy: I can’t- And he is so cute to this day, but this was 10 years ago, I think. I tucked him into bed ’cause he is much younger than his brothers. And they were still up reading or watching a show or doing something together and I thought, “Okay, I can go grab a shower and then I’ll- I’ll say goodnight to the older boys.” So I went to do that and I came out and they are crying. The big boys are crying ’cause the little boy came outta bed just saying the most horrific things anyone in our family had ever said. And I’m like, “Where did you learn these unkind words? And you’re saying ’em to your brother?” I don’t- I still, to this day, I don’t know where, but I was so blindsided-
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: … by them. Thankfully the Holy Spirit kept me calm and kind ’cause I was already doing this work.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And I took him by the hand. We went to his room and the next day was his school. He went to this precious, private Christian school-
Jim: (laughs)
Wendy: … and they were having their Christmas concert the next day.
Jim: Oh.
Wendy: And I- I must’ve said something like, “Buddy, like, I don’t know what the consequence is gonna be, but, like, we’re gonna have to do some serious parenting here. I’ve never faced this. Not even your older brothers have been so unkind with their words.”
Amber: Hm.
Wendy: So I need to figure this out. And he said to me, “Can I still do the Christmas concert tomorrow?” And I- I said, “I don’t know.”
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: I don’t know. And- And one of the things we say-
Jim: That was good.
Wendy: … say often in the book-
Jim: Let him sweat.
Wendy: … is don’t- well, but also … (laughs) You’re such a dude.
Jim: (laughs)
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: Let him sweat. I like this. I like this.
Amber: Tough beans I think is the-
Jim: Tough beans.
Amber: … is the correct script there.
Wendy: (laughs)
Jim: That’s what Wendy said yesterday.
Amber: That’s from yesterday.
Wendy: Um, but it’s a matter of recognizing there is wisdom to be had for this parenting moment. I don’t have it yet-
Jim: Hm.
Wendy: … so I need to meditate. I need to ask the Lord for wisdom. I love King Solomon’s request. He could have asked for anything and he said, “God, give me wisdom as I lead this great people of yours.” He’s talking about a nation. Well, nation originally means family, so we’ve got a little nation in our home. What better question to say-
Jim: Uh-huh.
Wendy: … “God, give me wisdom as I lead this great people of yours.” And I didn’t have it in the moment. And so I went to bed that night and I was thinking of the verse. I think I actually jotted it down here ’cause I was reading it again this morning, James 3:10. “From the same mouth come blessing and curses. My brothers, these things ought not be.”
Jim: Mm.
Wendy: And so I was thinking about that and I- I said to my son the next morning, “I was thinking about this scripture. It says we should not with our same mouth, our same tongue, bless God, singing His praises at the Christmas concert tonight, only right after cursing literally-
Jim: Hm.
Wendy: … your brothers.” However, and this may be the most important part of why I love speaking to parents, the goal is always the gospel. And I love reminding parents that we don’t have to be afraid when our kids sin. Whether they’re eight, or they’re 18, or they’re 48 and making choices you’d rather them not make.
Jim: Hm.
Wendy: We don’t have to be afraid because sin is a layup for the gospel. Without sin, we don’t need saving. So what about this sin moment, this sin story, or this sin tendency is an invitation for the grace of God?
Jim: Hm.
Amber: It’s an opportunity, right?
Wendy: Yeah, it is.
Amber: To point them to why they need a savior.
Wendy: Yeah. And so I said to him-
Amber: If- At the end of the day. That’s it.
Wendy: “Hey, you put your faith in Christ at five years old, buddy. Do you remember that?” “Yes.” “Do you remember kind of the heart of what that meant?” “Yes, that I sin and- and that I deserve to be separated from God. And- And God sent His son Jesus to rescue me and bring me back into a right relationship with God the Father.” Right, okay. When you were five, you didn’t have very many things you needed to repent of. And we talked about at that point it’s not just for what you have done, it’s for what you will do. You are right with God because of what Jesus did for you. Will there need to be consequences so that you learn in this moment? I can’t do that. I gotta get my tongue under control? Yes, I don’t know what they are. Your dad and I need to work through that, but I want to remind you of what Christ did for you. He did it for last night. And you, because we’re so thankful that He did that for you, you can go celebrate the fact that He was born to die for those sins. We have so much hope and grace.
Jim: Okay, and what was the consequence?
Wendy: I don’t even remember because this-
Jim: (laughs)
Wendy: … the goal is the gospel always.
Jim: Yeah, that’s good that you didn’t-
Wendy: And that’s now my script to myself.
Jim: … forbid him to go to the Christmas story. (laughs)
Wendy: Right. Right.
Amber: These aren’t just annoying moments where we think I failed as a parent. These are our opportunities. Right? That’s what they are.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: That’s good. That’s a good way to look at it.
Wendy: And even though we’re talking about preparing scripts ahead of time, I also wanna remind our listeners that this is an example of not being prepared, but I was prepared to not say the wrong thing.
Jim: Right.
Amber: Fair. Yeah. (laughs)
Jim: No, that’s good.
Wendy: I was prepared to go prepare.
John: And that is a path of wisdom that their-
Jim: (laughs)
John: (laughs) Our guests today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly are Amber Lia and Wendy Speake. And, uh, we’re, uh, covering some of the great content in their book, Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New. And you can learn more about our guests and this terrific book and all the help we have for you as a mom or a dad at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: We discussed last time extending grace.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And again, parent to child, we covered that, but how to teach your children how to extend grace.
Amber: Yes.
Jim: That’s a mature concept. It kind of fits in that category with, for me, where Jean and I for 10,000 times said, “Now remember to say please-
John: Hm.
Jim: Remember to say thank you.” And, you know, occasionally you got it, but then when they’re 13, 14, and, bam, they remember to do it without a prompt and you’re going, “Okay, they caught it.” You know?
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: It- But it’s in that category of how to teach them to extend grace. When they’re little, the world’s about them. I mean, it’s just the human state of being. Everything circulates around me, right?
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: So how do we teach them to think empathetically-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … toward others-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … and extend grace to other people?
Amber: You know, forgiveness and grace is something that we have 1,000 opportunities to be offended all day long at our house ’cause there’s so many people under there.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: I don’t know whose idea it was to have so many kids, but here we are.
Wendy: (laughs)
Jim: I love it, by the way.
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: I think I wish we had more.
Amber: It’s good.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And listen, I love it.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: I say that in jest.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: I- My children are-
Jim: I love it.
Amber: I love them so much.
Jim: I love big families.
Amber: Yeah, but there is a lot of opportunity for conflict when you’ve got-
Jim: Yes.
Amber: … more people around, right?
Jim: (laughs) Makes sense.
Amber: And so we have learned that we actually have, like, the initial fight and then there’s the peripheral fights that happened because-
Jim: The aftershocks. (laughs)
Amber: Yes, the aftershocks. The shrapnel, I like to call it, right?
Jim: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love it.
Amber: Um, that also can wound. And so I was like, “We’ve gotta figure this out.” And obviously the Word of God has so much instruction on grace and forgiveness, but there’s a few things that, you know, I’ve learned along the way when, you know, shaping this as a foundational truth for my kids. To be forgiving, to offer grace, and to receive that from the person that’s extending it as well ’cause that’s a whole other side of the coin. So I tell my kids like, “We do need to choose our timing wisely when we are going to go to somebody to ask for forgiveness.” And sometimes the kids have had a- a squabble with each other and neither one of them is in a place where they’re ready. And so I will just kind of say to them this script. I will say, “You know, I really hope that at some point you will repair your relationship with your brother.”
Jim: Hm.
Wendy: That’s beautiful.
Amber: I just say that simple thing. “You know, it sounds to me like there’s some repair that needs to be done between the two of you.” And then I just kind of step away and I let them marinate. Right? Again-
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: … just getting them to think about it instead of, hey, forcing grace-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Amber: … forcing an apology. Right? This person’s not sincere in it and this person doesn’t feel relieved because they know this person wasn’t sincere. I just want everybody to be happy. You apologize, you apologize, accept the grace and move on. And so I just tell ’em I hope at some point that you will repair your relationship with your brother. And so then I tell ’em, you know, choose the timing wisely. You know, if they’re right in the heat of they’re crying, they’re sobbing, they’re not gonna be real receptive. They’re too emotionally heightened to hear your apology. And then we also are really particular about the way we apologize, too. We say to the kids, you know, we have to practice this, by the way. This takes a lot of practice because we’re so prone to want to explain what we did or why or make excuses. So we would, you know, instead of saying, “Hey, you know, when you said something mean to me, it made me really angry. And I’m sorry that I said what I said, but if you didn’t say those mean things in the first place, I probably wouldn’t have gone down that path. You know, I do apologize, but, you know, hopefully we can avoid this in the future.”
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: That doesn’t sound real great, though, because you’re still making excuses and placing blame-
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Amber: … on the other person.
Wendy: Yeah, I’m visualizing that.
Amber: So instead, we come at it like this. “Hey, brother, I am so sorry that I yelled at you and I was so offended and that I said the things in return to you that were wounding. I know that that hurt your feelings and I apologize and I care about you.” Like, it- there’s nothing about what they did or said to make-
Wendy: Period.
Amber: … you whatever.
Jim: Right.
Amber: It’s just taking ownership. And then I teach the kids, too, like, don’t expect an apology back necessarily-
Jim: Hm.
Amber: … because that person also may need a little time-
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: … to receive that apology. You know, they-
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: … they may not be in a place where they’re ready to forgive you yet. So I tell ’em don’t expect that. Just do it because it’s the right thing to do. And then don’t keep bringing it up again, like that record of wrongs. Right? Love doesn’t keep a record of wrongs.
Jim: Right.
Amber: So let’s move on from it. And then sometimes if it’s like this repeated behavior, prayer. Like, go to prayer. Just be like, “Lord, there is this repetitive issue with this kiddo,” or this spouse or this colleague or whatever, but in the parenting context. And we really need to remember again that the battle is really in that spiritual realm. You know, to pray, Lord. What is it that needs to be healed in this child? What is it that needs to be broken off?
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: What is it that needs to be restored or rooted out? And to really pray about that. And that’s what we want with our kids.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: When they’re young, right? If we train them. When they’re older, they’re not gonna depart from it.
Jim: Mm.
Amber: And they’re going to-
Wendy: Isn’t that true?
Amber: … in other contexts, even outside of their home, they’re gonna practice it. And they’re practicing it outside the home and with others because we’ve been faithful to practice it with them when they are young in our homes under our watch. Yeah.
Jim: Well, it’s a deeper version of the please and thank you.
Amber: It is.
Jim: I mean, it’s a much-
Wendy: Yeah.
Jim: … you know, deeper maturity-
Amber: It is, yeah.
Jim: … that someone can do that. Wendy, um, one of the things that we’ve talked about in the past, and you’re passionate about this, is the guilt moms feel.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: So how do you coach a mom-
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … with that, you know, approach, where she feels she owns it all? I mean-
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: … she owns the bad behavior of her five-year-old-
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: … or 15-year-old. If I were a better mother-
Wendy: If, yeah.
Jim: … he wouldn’t have said that.
Wendy: Well-
Amber: Yes.
Wendy: … I would- I have two thoughts that come directly and I’m gonna just briefly touch on the first because we already did. This is a conversation about the kindness of God.
Amber: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Wendy: This is a safe place to talk about, “Hey, God, am I off? Is there anything offensive in me? And if so, what’s the purpose of it? Oh, in your kindness? To lead me to repentance so I can walk in the right way, the everlasting way? I’m all in.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Let’s do that. Convict me. Give me some points. Give me wisdom that I might lead this great people of yours. Like, this is a safe place to deal with good-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … Godly, kind conviction. Guilt, however, while conviction, I think that you’re- you have a phrase in Triggers.
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Uh, conviction catapults us-
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: … forward in the right direction. Guilt actually stops us.
Amber: It condemns us, actually.
Wendy: Yes. It’s condemning.
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: So we don’t-
Jim: That’s guilt.
Wendy: … want that.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: So if they’re- if they’re feeling more guilt, and I would even go so far as to say shame, so shame is not I did something wrong. Shame is I am something wrong. I am something bad.
Jim: Hm.
Wendy: It’s not that I did something bad. So let’s first just with the Lord sit there and say, “What are these feelings I’m feeling?”
Amber: Yeah.
Wendy: Because I actually would like transformation and I don’t wanna be stuck here and I don’t wanna be stuck doing the same bad thing. It’s the kindness of the Lord that’s inviting me to have this conversation. So with hope, with courage, with gentle love for myself and for my kiddos, I’m gonna show up for that conversation with God.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Now, the second part is, and I don’t remember which chapter of which book I talk (laughs) about this, but we talk about pinpointing one issue because guilt sometimes can feel like a dark cloud.” And there’s just no way to see the end of the darkness, but if we just say it’s the bedtime routine, like, we make it through the day, but I’m so worn out and they keep asking for more and more and more. And I always lose it there. Okay, you feel guilty about that. You feel convicted about that. Would you like to do something different? That we can have a healthy conversation about.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: Yeah, it’s really good.
Amber: And I- I often feel like, too, there’s- there’s kind of like this voice, you know, that you hear. Obviously the Holy Spirit is leading you, but the voice that is a friend or an enemy. You know?
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: It’s like if the- if the voice sounds more like an enemy, then that’s probably Satan breathing down my neck, trying to get me to feel condemnation. And Jesus died to free us from that guilt and that condemnation. I don’t wanna take that back after all that suffering that He’s already been through on the cross for me. Instead, the friendly voice is that of the Lord Jesus that He would say to me, “Okay, let’s do better.” You know?
Wendy: I’m with you in this.
Amber: Yeah, I’m with you in it.
Wendy: This is repentance time.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And we get to do something new.
Amber: You get to move forward. Obviously we’re bathing our children in prayer. Right? At any age and stage of life.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And there- that is not to be underestimated. But at the end of the day, we have to shift. We don’t always track with our kids in their developmental, which is why I love that- the e-letter that you guys put out about the ages and stages of children and development because when our kids are older we have to release some of that. We’re so used to controlling and coaching them so well when they’re little and we can see the development. And then as they get older, a lot of that development’s going on internally.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: And we’re not tracking with it ’cause it’s not necessarily right in front of our eyes. And so now we’re still trying to control and dictate and protect. Right? Or prevent. And this is where we really lean on the Holy Spirit.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: And we go, “You know what? I have done the good parenting or the flawed, but very, you know, prayerful parenting.”
Jim: Consistent. Yeah.
Amber: Consistent. And now I release that and I- they’re in God’s hands at that point.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And are there things that I’m doing to enable some of these activities? That’s where I can control.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: I can control what my response is. If they’re continuing to, you know, if they’re doing drugs and I’m providing lavish home for them with which to do that, that’s probably a problem for me. Like, I maybe need to put in some boundaries at that point.
Jim: Yeah. Yeah.
Amber: Right? So there’s things we can do.
Jim: So true.
Amber: There’s what can I control that’s my part or my behavior in this and then the rest of it we have to release to the Lord.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: They will make their own decisions and it kind of goes back to this releases some of the guilt piece, too.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: Because I always say that we can’t take too much credit or too much blame-
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: … for the choices our kids are going to make. And maybe that’s just the script that parents-
Wendy: For sure.
Amber: … and grandparents need to hear right now themselves, is, hey, Amber, hey, Wendy, hey, Jim, hey, John, we can’t take too much credit or too much blame.
Jim: Yeah.
Amber: And this is in God’s hands.
Jim: But that control thing, just to punch that a little bit-
Amber: Yeah.
Jim: … if you want to change your relationship with your late teen, your 20 something, give up that control as a parent.
Wendy: Yes.
Amber: Absolutely.
Jim: Because I- I’ve seen that, especially for the boys. I- I’m sure-
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: … it’s true of girls-
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: … I just don’t have the experience. But they are desperately looking for that control at 17, 18.
Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. It’s so- It’s so respectful and I- I-
Amber: It is respectful.
Wendy: … I even think it’s such a picture of what God allows.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: It is-
Amber: He does.
Wendy: … respect and dignity-
Amber: So true, Wendy.
Wendy: … for our humanity that-
Amber: Hm.
Wendy: … He gave us free will. This actually makes me wanna cry.
Amber: It’s choices.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: And so much so that I- (laughs) I tattooed it on my wrist. I have a picture of the cross and an arrow shooting what I wanted to be straight to the cross of Christ. That is my goal.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Yeah.
Wendy: But if they fly as a straight arrow and hit that mark, bullseye. All three of ’em.
Jim: Mm.
Wendy: Without one detour. First of all, it’s not possible. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Second of all, without detours, we wouldn’t have needed the cross of Christ.
Amber: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Right?
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: That’s what it’s for. And so I made in my arrow a detour in the shape of a heart to remind me that I’m gonna love my kids through their detours because it’s actually in alignment with God, the Father, loving our children so much and respecting them and giving them dignity to choose Him or reject Him. And if He can give my kids that respect as humans, apart from Him, can’t I?
John: Hm.
Jim: It is the parenting challenge to let go.
Wendy: Yes.
Jim: And give them that dignity and let the Lord-
Amber: Release with love.
Jim: … work in their hearts. Man-
Amber: Release with love.
Jim: … what a place to end. I mean, that’s the right spot.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And what a great resource, Parenting Scripts: When What You’re Saying Isn’t Working, Say Something New. (laughs)
Amber: (laughs)
Jim: It’s- It’s like, duh, but, again, as parents, we get into ruts. We keep-
Wendy: Yes, ruts.
Jim: … doing the same thing for years and it- and it doesn’t produce the fruit we’re looking for.
Wendy: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So get ahold of us. If you can make a gift of any amount, monthly, one time, we’ll send you a copy of the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. But also we do have that Age and Stage content. It’s a e-newsletter. It goes out. You just have to give us your children’s date of births and then we will send you content literally every week about what you’re going to encounter when they’re two, when they’re eight, when they’re 15. We take it all the way from zero to 18 and it’s absolutely free. We just want to equip you to be the best parent you can be.
John: Yeah, and we’re building that Age and Stage e-newsletter content constantly. It’s always being refreshed and updated. And let me say that your financial support means so much to us here, uh, especially in the summer as we smooth out some of the, uh, lack of giving, if I can just be bold. And, uh, we want to continue to work hard to support families and offer practical, biblical, free resources to help you and your family thrive in Christ. Uh, so we need your contributions. Your financial support, your partnering with us, your prayers all add up and help us to reach even more families. If you’ve not given in a while, please consider doing so. If you’re already signed up and a monthly sustainer, thank you for doing that. If you can add in an extra gift, we would really appreciate it. Donate today when you contact us, and, uh, request a copy of Amber and Wendy’s terrific book Parenting Scripts when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY, or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Wendy and Amber, thank you again for being with us. This is great content. Really good stuff. Thanks.
Amber: Thank you for having us. (laughs)
Wendy: Thank you.
John: Well, plan to join us next time as we hear from Dr. Os Guinness, who will share how you and I can transform the culture through ordinary acts of faith.
Dr. Os Guinness: I’m just a little finite person. I’ve only got 24 hours. I’ve only got so much energy. I’ve only got so many dollars, very little. I can’t manage the world. I certainly can’t save the world. All the Lord asked me to do is be faithful in my calling.
