John Fuller: I’m John Fuller and welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Florida voters will soon decide on the extremely consequential pro-abortion Amendment 4. Here’s Governor Ron DeSantis.
Governor Ron DeSantis: So kind of what we need to do is just, uh, expose what this is and tell people the truth. So here’s the truth, uh, it would eliminate all protections for the unborn in the state of Florida. It would allow abortion all the way up to the moment of birth.
John: Governor DeSantis recently joined Jim Daly to talk about Amendment 4 in detail, and that’s the subject of this special broadcast for Florida listeners today.
Jim Daly: John, uh, so often we talk about the life issue, it’s, uh, certainly in the political arena, but this is a moral issue. I so wish that democrats and republicans would agree on a pro-life perspective because it’s the right choice. Uh, certainly there’s gonna be about 2% of pregnancies that are, uh, rape, incest, uh, health of the mother, and we know those are very controversial and very personal decisions. We get that. The other 95%, 98% of abortions are elective meaning a woman is choosing to terminate her baby because she doesn’t believe she can’t afford it, she’s not in the right position to have that child right now. And our heart goes out for those very difficult decisions. But we want to help women better understands the options that are out there like adoption. That is a great option.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: And we want to lift up life. Why? Because we’re believers in Jesus, and God Himself knows that He knits you in your mother’s womb. We believe that life begins at conception and, uh, no later. And some of these laws around the country, like in Minnesota now, if a infant survives an abortion attempt, uh, the government in Minnesota has signed in infanticide.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: The doctor can leave that baby to die.
John: Hm. That’s so wrong.
Jim: That is where this is going, folks. So we want to, uh, inform you with this discussion with Governor DeSantis. He, as your governor, is willing to stand out there and say no to Amendment 4. Will you stand with him? I’m saying, I’m begging, vote no on Amendment 4.
John: Mm. Well, Governor DeSantis, as you said, Jim, is so strongly pro-life. Uh, he and his wife Casey, the First Lady, have quite a record of defending pre-born babies and supporting women who are facing an unplanned pregnancy. And, uh, you met with the Governor and a handful of pro-life supporters in Colorado for this conversation. Let’s go ahead and hear the details now on today’s episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Jim: Governor, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
Governor DeSantis: It’s good to see you. How you doing?
Jim: I’m doing great up here in Colorado this time. The mountain air of Beaver Creek. We love it here. How about you?
Governor DeSantis: Well, I’ll tell you what, uh,-
Jim: (laughs)
Governor DeSantis: … when I left my front door in Tallahassee, Florida at 6:30 in the morning b- to fly out here, uh, the humidity, it already felt like a sauna at 6:30 in the morning.
Jim: (laughs)
Governor DeSantis: And so I landed and there was no humidity, and that was a welcome relief, uh, when you’re talking about the dog days of summer.
Jim: Let me, uh, put some shape to what’s happening around the country, then we’ll get specific to Florida. Um, one question is, why talk about life? Uh, why is this so important to you? There are people in politics on the conservative side who have said, “You know what? This may be a loser item. I’m gonna move away from this.” But you’re standing there to say, “I don’t care if it’s a winner or a loser, I’m standing for life.” Why do you do that?
Governor DeSantis: Well, how was our country founded? Uh, they wrote words down in a Declaration of Independence, and they were very clear. Our founders, they could have, uh, put down, uh, statements that, uh, supported other values than what they did, and they said, “We are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, and among these are the right to life, first and foremost, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” And so if you believe th- that that’s the case, uh, then I think you have a responsibility to promote that culture of life, promote a culture of freedom and promote a culture that protects people’s right to pursue happiness. I also just think that, you know, when you’re talking about, uh, a unborn child, you know, who are you standing up for in this? Are you gonna stand up for powerful people who don’t need you or are you gonna stand up and be a voice for the voiceless? And right now a lot of those folks, um, don’t have voices in our society. Uh, yeah, you’re right, I mean, political wins going through and all this stuff, um, and I just wanna be there, uh, defending, uh, the defenseless, and so that’s why I do it.
Jim: No, it’s, it’s really good. Nationally, let’s paint the picture. 41 states actually have some form of restriction on abortion, 41 states. Nine states don’t. So actually, some restriction is pretty much the law of the land through the states. Now, since Dobbs two and a half years ago roughly, 14 states have put very heavy, I think rightful restrictions on abortion. Uh, 27 states, including your state, have put significant bans such as the six-week heartbeat bill, and I’d like to get your response to that. And then you have eight states that have banned anything beyond 18 weeks, and in addition to that, 19 more states that restrict it at some point thereafter. I think it’s 93% of the country, both republican and democrat and independent do not support late term abortion. 93%. And somehow, that 7% and those people at Planned Parenthood and other places are trying to persuade the country again that taking the life of a child in the last trimester is morally good. So with that kind of landscape, speak to the battle in Florida and anything you’d like to say nationally.
Governor DeSantis: Well, the one thing I, I think is that you have seen, uh, the Democrat Party and the forces that support it really go radical as can be on this issue. Now you go back 30 years ago, their mantra was they wanted it to be safe, legal, but rare. So they actually said that abortion was, was… should be disfavored, uh, they would say that that’s not what we wanted to promote. Uh, and now, they want to actively promote. Uh, they believe it’s good for this to happen. There’s people that are encouraged to talk about this as this, this is a good thing. So that’s been a major, major shift. And late term abortions do happen. It’s not the majority, it’s less than 5%, but of the late term abortions that happen, the vast, vast, vast majority are elective. In other words, there’s not an extenuating circumstance, a mother’s life or anything is at risk.
And, and the question is, I think one of the challenges we’ve had on the life side is when we talk about that, a lot of voters just don’t believe it, they don’t believe it happens. They basically say, “Well, why would, would anyone wanna do that?” Well, why? Money for one thing. There’s people that make money off these practices. You also have mothers who are in very vulnerable situations.
Jim: Right.
Governor DeSantis: So you may have a father that is pushing for this. Maybe she doesn’t think she has the financial means. So there are things that happen, and it’s just like, okay, are we, are we rooted in science, uh, or are we rooted in ideology? ‘Cause if you’re rooted in science, we can all see now, you, (laughs) you have w- the sono… you can see what it is, uh, you can see that that is a separate life. It just is. A- and that’s not always the most convenient thing, I know, some of these things are very difficult, very emotional, uh, issues. Uh, and a lot of these women are put in very difficult situations. We should have compassion, uh, for that. We should approach it from that. In Florida, we’ve done a lot more than any state, other state to help young mothers in particular. It’s important.
But the reality is is like the truth is the truth, uh, and if you as a society are willing to allow an unborn child’s life to be taken, snuffed out a day before birth, which California, Minnesota, some of these states do, um, I don’t care if it never happened, that’s wrong to have that on your books to allow that, to say that that child doesn’t have rights. But it is happening. So, so, so that’s just the context we are, what, what everyone would’ve said was bad 30 years ago, now you have a market where people are saying that that’s somehow good. So almost everyone believes that there needs to be protections, uh, for the unborn. The question is where you draw the line. And states that have drawn the line, uh, at a heartbeat, I think the argument is is like clearly anyone can agree that a heartbeat is a sign of life, right? Uh, some draw it at when a, there’s a pain capable, because I think politically a lot of voters, when they hear that this could cause excruciating pain, which it can do, then that’s something that they wince at. Uh, so, but whatever the line is, most people think they, they need to draw a line.
Jim: Let me as you this, uh, since these more restricted state, uh, laws on abortion, I think the estimate is almost 100,000 babies have been saved since the overturn of Roe v. Wade. Isn’t that great? And, you know, for me, one of the obvious things is, what do you say to those children? That they were never human? They’re here now. They’re starting to go… They’ll be going to school in a couple years. And it, to me, it’s one of those illogical arguments. You just let that baby grow. That baby’s human.
Governor DeSantis: So there was actually an article, I think it was probably maybe a year after the Dobbs decision came out, I think it was the Washington Post, which this would make sense that they would take this position, but they profiled a mother who had twins. And basically, uh, the gist was, and they were kind of trying to paint this in a negative light, you know, this was somebody who, who was pregnant, had twins, was in a state, I think it was Kentucky, um, you know, where they had protections for the unborn, so, so she ended up having the babies. And you see pictures of, like, these, like, perfectly healthy, beautiful babies, and I’m just thinking to myself, “They’re trying to argue that that’s a bad thing? That, that these kids are getting a shot?” And I think most people, when they see that, those photos, they’re like, “That’s a good thing, uh, that you do.”
And so, you know, there, there’s a human element to this that I do think still strikes people, because I can tell you, of anything I’ve ever done in my life, uh, I’ve never had a feeling that I had when we had our firstborn child. It’s just a different thing than you’ll ever experience. Uh, your life changes in ways that y- you can’t even describe. But it is a positive thing and it’s been the most positive thing that my wife and I, you know, have experienced since we’ve been married. So, uh, but I do think when they’re try… they don’t wanna talk about that. This was a clumsy article that probably didn’t help their cause. But they actually ran an article lamenting, you know, that,-
Jim: Yeah.
Governor DeSantis: … that these babies are there, and it’s just, it’s just bizarre.
Jim: It’s amazing. When you look at Amendment 4, kinda drilling into Amendment 4, who is backing Amendment 4?
Governor DeSantis: One big backer is George Soros. Uh, also many of these organs of the far left. Though don’t make no mistake, this is, uh, the far left trying to impose this into Florida’s constitution. And they’ve spent tens of millions of dollars to get on the ballot.
Jim: I’ve heard 35 million.
Governor DeSantis: Yeah, to get on the ballot. They would not be doing that for their health, right? I mean, they wouldn’t be doing that just because. They’re doing that because a lot of these people are gonna benefit if they can get this regime in place, people that will make money off the practice, but also I think they think it helps them politically somehow. So, but what they’re doing in Florida is, and this is a defect of how Florida’s constitution, written in 1968 does. So they have these citizen initiatives where if you get enough signatures you can get on the ballot and you can amend the constitution. It used to be just 50%. You literally could have 50% on one election, and then that ties the hands of every subsequent generation. So fortunately, Florida raised that to 60% threshold, uh, so you need to get 60%. The problem with how this is done is, they propose how to amend the constitution, but they don’t print the text that they wanna add to the constitution on the ballot. They are allowed to draft their own summary that the voters see. And how do you think they’re gonna word the summary? They’re gonna poll test it, they’re gonna make it misleading, they’re gonna do all that just to try to get 60%. So you’re literally in this situation where you’re just trying to confuse people.
So what Amendment 4 is, is against that backdrop, they are trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the people of Florida. They are using deceptive language. They are not defining the terms that they’re using to amend the constitution of the state of Florida. You don’t know what these terms are. Uh, and so that’s all by design because they want people to read that summary and do it. When the summary was first put on the ballot, it was approved in April. You know, our guys started doing some research on it, and what they found was there were actually some pro-lifers that read it and thought it was pro-life. That’s by design. They are using words in ways… And this has all been focus grouped and tested.
So kind of what we need to do is just, uh, expose what this is and tell people the truth. So here’s the truth, uh, it would eliminate all protections for the unborn in the state of Florida. It would allow abortion all the way up to the moment of birth. Now how do they do that? They can’t say that because then it would lose. So what they say is that up until viability. Now, they don’t define what that is either. Uh, but then they say if any healthcare provider deems it appropriate, you can go past that. Ba… I mean, in Florida law, ’cause we had our own, uh, Supreme Court decades ago did like a Roe v. Wade, it always said, “This is for a physician.” Now they’re saying it could be a healthcare provider. That’s a massage therapist, that could be a clerk at Planned Parenthood. That’s not the same thing as a physician. So if any of those people say that this is appropriate… So that basically means that there are no limits. So that’s the first problem.
The second problem is, we have in Florida parental consent, uh, for abortion. Now, this was prior to Dobbs when we signed this into law, and most parents believe that that’s really important. So they would eliminate our parental consent for abortion, uh, protections in Florida law. Abortion would be the only thing that a parent would be cut out from regarding their minor child. So anything else you’d need parent consent except this. That’s a huge, huge problem. There are Floridians who support abortion who may not be pro-life who still believe that this is not something you can strip away from the parents.
The other thing that it will likely do if it passes, and we see this in Michigan, so almost a similar one passed in Michigan, uh, last year, 2022. ACLU immediately goes into court and they sue saying, “Hey, this is a constitutional right, uh, it should not be abridged on the basis of income. You must dedicate taxpayer dollars to these abortions.” And so there’s a good chance that this could lead to taxpayer funding of abortion. And so it’s a deceptive amendment, they’re not defining the terms, they’re using loopholes. But make no mistake, this is California, Minnesota or New York that they’re attempting to impose in the state of Florida. And that would not be good and that would make Florida, along with California and all those other states, uh, one of the most radical abortion regimes in the world, similar to China and North Korea. But I think it would be even worse for us, because if you look, the entire Southeast, except, I guess, North Carolina, you know, has pretty strong pro-life laws. I mean, Mississippi, Alabama is like totally foolproof, Texas, all this. Florida will be the destination state. Uh, look we’re very proud of tourism, but not for that. I mean, we wanna have… we want family focused tourism. We want people to come enjoy themselves. But it would create, uh, this real serious cottage industry.
And when you say it doesn’t even have to be in… a physician doesn’t have to be involved, you know, they’re the ones always talking about, you know, the health of the mother. Well, this is gonna cause real problems ’cause people are gonna get rich off doing this, uh, and they’re gonna harm a lotta women in the process.
Jim: It’s so true. I wanna read the ballot initiative actually. Um, and you can bounce off it again, but you’ve stated it well. But given this is gonna air in Florida, I want the Floridian voters to hear it.
Governor DeSantis: Sure.
Jim: It says, “No law shall prohibit, penalize, delay or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient’s health as determined by the patient’s healthcare provider. This amendment does not change the legislature’s constitutional authority to require notification,” that’s the sh- the shift, require notification, which it was consent, “to a parent or guardian before a minor has the abortion.”
Governor DeSantis: So that-
Jim: And that’s it.
Governor DeSantis: And they’re doing that, tha- so they do the notification ’cause they’re trying to trick people. They know they’re stripping consent, so by putting that in, they want people to think parents are somehow gonna be involved. They’re not gonna be involved. I mean, that’s just not gonna happen. Uh, so you have that. And notice, it would eliminate the waiting period. Uh, we have, a lotta states have, uh, have waiting periods, it would eliminate that. Uh, and basically there would be, uh, zero ways to provide any protection at all from a pro-life perspective.
But here’s one thing that, uh, just a couple things to note about Florida. So similar… These things have been winning across the country, right? Uh, Florida requires 60%, not 50. So this got 57% in Michigan to pass, it got 57% in Ohio to pass. If it were to get 57% in Florida, it would fail. So we need to vet 40% plus one, uh, to vote on, on the initiative. So that makes, I think, what’s going on here a little bit different than what you see, um, in some of these other states. And then there’s just another aspect of this that’s apart from the whole life issue. When you’re amending the constitution of the US or a state, that’s pretty much forever, right? Like it’s possible you can undo it, but it’s just not gonna happen. So there is that oth- added issue of, this is not just voting yes or no on a policy question, you know, yes is forever. No, even if you’re sympathetic to the direction they’re going, no means they gotta get it right. They gotta come and be a better situation.
Jim: You know, Governor, one of the, um, negative things that are said about the Christian community is that we care only about the baby, not about the mother. And I’ll respond with that’s such a 1973 argument.
Governor DeSantis: Right.
Jim: Right, because pregnancy resource centers today, I mean, they do so much. Budget training, they do formula give away, diaper give away, they help with furniture, they’ll do job training, job placement. I don’t think Planned Parenthood’s doing that.
Governor DeSantis: Not only that. I mean, so in Florida, we, we certainly utilize that. My wife, uh, or First Lady started a program called Hope Florida. And it wasn’t just for young mothers, but that was a big reason why we did it. And basically what she said was, “You know, the welfare system in this country since the ’60s has basically been, hey, if you give someone a check, maybe they’ll end up doing better, and that really just creates a culture of dependency. You come in, what can government do or not do?” So what she said was, and I agreed, is, “Look, we have so many of these organizations, our churches, our charities, our businesses, our individual volunteers who can help lift people up.” So we created something through Hope Florida called the Care Portal. So if you go in and you’re seeking help, so say, look, it’s a mother, uh, she’s got a six-month-old baby, she just got evicted from her apartment, she goes in, here’s what she needs. That will go out to all the people in the care portal.
And so guess what? Who’s gonna do a better job fixing that problem, a bureaucrat or a church? A bureaucrat, uh, or a charitable organization? So we now have all these churches that are involved. And you know what? Uh, the people that have been involved, the people that needed a job, 71% found jobs through Hope Florida. Uh, we’ve removed over 30,000 people from government dependency on Hope Florida in just like a year and a half. Uh, but we are harnessing the faith community, uh, we are recognizing there’s a lot of energy out in society to help people, and that bureaucracies are not ultimately the answer. And so we have done a lot in this regard, and we’re gonna continue to do more, uh, because it’s really, really important.
Jim: You know, I’ve thought a lot about that. And you think of the death states and what are the ripple effects in California, New York, Minnesota, of having a death culture? And I think we’re seeing it. And you look at the states that are lifting up life, and I think over the arc of the next five to 10 years, you’re going to see Shalom, God’s peace come to those places that are living a more biblical perspective in that way. It is what the early church in Rome did, what you’re describing, connecting need with the church, saving babies at the trash heap. That’s how they did abortion back then, or infanticide. There were unwanted pregnancies in 200 AD, and those women and men would leave those babies at the dump to be eaten or destroyed by wild animals. And Christians came there, scooped them up, took them home and raised them as their own. That’s the moment we’re in. And we can be more sophisticated about it through the portal and other things, but that’s the battle we’re in.
Governor DeSantis: Look, we have in Florida a waiting list for people that want to adopt. Uh, we’ve created great programs to increase, uh, the breadth of our foster, uh, parents.
Jim: It’s one of the best states with foster.
Governor DeSantis: Yeah, no,-
Jim: Congratulations, by the way.
Governor DeSantis: … we, we’ve worked, I mean, you know, we’ve identified, hey, we want people that are pillars of the community. You know, if you’re in law enforcement, a veteran, all this stuff, you know, we’ll give you more money to do it because we wanna bring people in. We know that people have big hearts and, uh, a- and it’s important. And these are difficult issues. When you’re talking about, you know, a mother that’s struggling, uh, with a baby, you’re talking about some… these are difficult circumstances. I can’t just write a check and the problem’s solved. Uh, and so, one of the reasons why we’ve really leaned in on the Hope program and really worked with the faith community is because, you know, a check, a house, a roof over your head, all that is important, uh, but that’s not gonna necessarily lift you up.
A- and people do not that spiritual nourishment. They need to know, uh, that there’s a higher power out there, and they need to be able to be tended to, uh, appropriately. And so, um, I, I think that that has a lot to do with why we’ve been successful. Uh, you just can’t do… It’s not just dollars and cents. It’s not like building a road, it’s not like other things. There’s human emotions involved, there’s incentives, there’s all these different things. And, look, I’m not saying we’ve solved the problem entirely, we’re always looking for ways to do better, but I think we’ve approached it in a way that’s leading to much greater outcomes.
Jim: Yeah. Right here at the end, um, what are some things that your constituents… This is being aired in Florida, so they’re hearing this. We have people from all over, uh, Texas, Colorado here, and we wanna help. But what can people do?
Governor DeSantis: So one is, uh, educate yourself on this, your family, your friends, your neighbors, your coworkers, uh, spread the word about what this Amendment 4 is and, and urge people to vote no. Don’t vote with George Soros, uh, vote for, uh, sanity. Do not allow something this extreme to be put in Florida’s constitution. So, uh, there’s ways to get involved, boots on the ground. I know a lot of the, the churches are revving up for this across the state, and I know that there’s others groups that are doing it now. Uh, so we gotta keep doing it. Um, you know, and I’m happy to help, uh, lend my voice to it, and I know there’s others that are happy to lend their voice to it. But i- i- given the 60%, uh, I think this provides us with an opportunity, uh, to defeat something that’s very, very extreme. And look, if this were a 50% threshold, I mean, I would still make the same arguments, but, but the chance of succeeding on that would probably at th… right now would probably be more remote. This is winnable. Uh, this is winnable, uh, but we need everyone to spread the word and we need people to get involved.
Jim: That’s excellent. Let’s give the Governor a hand.
Governor DeSantis: All right. Thank you.
Jim: (laughs)
John: A special episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly featuring Governor Ron DeSantis. And Jim, he made it very clear what’s at stake with Amendment 4 in Florida.
Jim: Yeah, John. We’re asking every registered voter, and if there’s still time, get registered in Florida to vote no on Amendment 4. Again, the summary of the amendment is very deceptively worded. It’s intended to mislead voters. Uh, so many amendments like this on, in every state are written this way, very confusing. Don’t fall for it. Vote no on Amendment 4. And tell your friends, your family members, everybody to vote no. And make sure that you and everybody you can pull to the polls votes on November 5th. Um, you know, so often we can nitpick some of these politicians that may not do something we would like them to do, and then we disengage. To the Christian community, let me say, this is one we cannot sit out. This is about babies’ lives, mothers’ lives, fathers’ lives, and we need to stand in the gap. Uh, let’s pray for the defeat of this amendment. As the governor said, it takes just one vote more than 40% (laughs) to beat this. And, and man, we can do it.
And let me tell you the other side of this. If we don’t, if in Florida, such a red state now, if we cannot get to 40% that oppose abortion, then our movement as a Christian-led, God-breathed, in my opinion, movement to save babies’ lives from abortion, we will suffer a setback in this arena.
John: Mm.
Jim: And politicians will begin to duck and hide and not talk about this on both sides of the aisle.
John: Mm. Well, you’re so right. And, uh, as Jim said, make sure you vote. And of course be aware that vote by mail ballots arrive in a couple of weeks, and the voting period is in late October.
Now, we’re gonna have more information and articles on this topic at a special website, uh, that we’ve created. It’s focusonthefamily.com/amendment4. Uh, focusonthefamily.com/amendment4, that’s the number 4. Well, thanks for listening to this special episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
